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Efficient Stone selection

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  • #44296
    jake556
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 1

    Hello so I recently purchased the WE120, It comes with the standard stones, since I want to move up to a finer finish is the following all needed? And is so would you go from the 1000 diamond to the 1200 ceramic, 1500 diamond, then finish with the 1600 ceramic? The other question is the ceramic stone even needed? Any info is appreciated

    Extra Fine 800 Grit / Ultra Fine 1000 Grit Diamond Stones Pack

    1500 Grit Diamond Stones and Blank Glass Platens Pack

    Super Fine 1200 / 1600 Grit Ceramic Stones Pack

     

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    #44298
    Justin Fournier
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 54

    If you go diamond to 1500, you will have a very sharp edge. You can use the ceramic, but they will need a lot more breaking in than the diamond. I would suggest you use Ceramic after diamond, and expect it will need to be broken in. Personally, I never really enjoyed the ceramics, and they never got enough use to break them in, I had both super fine and micro fine. I have replaced them with diamond lapping film. Diamond stones to 1500 and 6 micron lapping film out performed my diamond to 1000 then 4 step ceramic on the second knife I tried them on. I expect the pair will only improve as the 1500 is broken in.

     

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    #44300
    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 64
    • Replies: 2474

    Welcome to the forum Jake.  I haven’t found switching mediums back and forth, (diamonds > ceramics > diamonds > ceramics) to be a effective course of action.  The scratch patterns of the mediums are different.  There’s more to it then just reducing particle size as you go from coarse to fine.  I agree with Justin that the ceramics take a long time to break in before you’ll see their true benefits.  If you don’t have the ceramics yet, you can certainly do with out them.

    Diamonds through 1500 in my experience the way to go.  At this point, after the 1500 grit diamond, you can chose to strop the edge and it should be very sharp.  For a new user, as you say you are,  I’d wait till your diamond stones are broken in more.  At the same time you’ll be gaining more experience with your technique and your WEPS.  Then in a month or two with some sharpening under your belt, the Diamond lapping films are a good way to go to get the ultimate sharp and shinny knife edge.  Right now, with your diamond stones still so new and your level of experience I don’t think you’ll gain the true benefits of the Diamond lapping film quit yet.  If you don’t mind the investment and the fact that the films are a fairly costly, a consumable commodity, then have at it.  You won’t hurt anything using them.  You just may not see your best results yet.

     

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

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    #44302
    Organic
    Participant
    • Topics: 17
    • Replies: 929

    Hi Jake and welcome to the forum.

    I don’t own any of the ceramic stones, just the diamonds from 100 to 1500 and then some lapping films and strops. Clay has shown that the 1500 grit diamond stones do a superb job of removing the 1000 grit scratches and you can go straight from the 1500 grit to the lapping films (see this thread for a detailed analysis). Many of the more experienced WE users on the forum have retired their ceramic stones in favor of the 1500 grit diamond.

    Although the ceramic stones are not necessary, options are always nice to have. Some users have said that they like the ceramics as a finishing grit for a micro bevel. If you want to know more about how a the ceramics compare to other abrasive types be sure to check out Mark76’s blog posts on the subject as well as this thread.

    5 users thanked author for this post.
    #44304
    jake556
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 1

    If you go diamond to 1500, you will have a very sharp edge. You can use the ceramic, but they will need a lot more breaking in than the diamond. I would suggest you use Ceramic after diamond, and expect it will need to be broken in. Personally, I never really enjoyed the ceramics, and they never got enough use to break them in, I had both super fine and micro fine. I have replaced them with diamond lapping film. Diamond stones to 1500 and 6 micron lapping film out performed my diamond to 1000 then 4 step ceramic on the second knife I tried them on. I expect the pair will only improve as the 1500 is broken in.

    Nice this is exactly what I wanted to hear, with all the choices available I didn’t want to spend excess dinero. So thank you for that.

    Welcome to the forum Jake. I haven’t found switching mediums back and forth, (diamonds > ceramics > diamonds > ceramics) to be a effective course of action. The scratch patterns of the mediums are different. There’s more to it then just reducing particle size as you go from coarse to fine. I agree with Justin that the ceramics take a long time to break in before you’ll see their true benefits. If you don’t have the ceramics yet, you can certainly do with out them. Diamonds through 1500 in my experience the way to go. At this point, after the 1500 grit diamond, you can chose to strop the edge and it should be very sharp. For a new user, as you say you are, I’d wait till your diamond stones are broken in more. At the same time you’ll be gaining more experience with your technique and your WEPS. Then in a month or two with some sharpening under your belt, the Diamond lapping films are a good way to go to get the ultimate sharp and shinny knife edge. Right now, with your diamond stones still so new and your level of experience I don’t think you’ll gain the true benefits of the Diamond lapping film quit yet. If you don’t mind the investment and the fact that the films are a fairly costly, a consumable commodity, then have at it. You won’t hurt anything using them. You just may not see your best results yet.

    Thanks for the welcome and the great information! So down the road if I get interested in stroping what would be the correct size I would need past the 6 micron film?

    Hi Jake and welcome to the forum. I don’t own any of the ceramic stones, just the diamonds from 100 to 1500 and then some lapping films and strops. Clay has shown that the 1500 grit diamond stones do a superb job of removing the 1000 grit scratches and you can go straight from the 1500 grit to the lapping films (see this thread for a detailed analysis). Many of the more experienced WE users on the forum have retired their ceramic stones in favor of the 1500 grit diamond. Although the ceramic stones are not necessary, options are always nice to have. Some users have said that they like the ceramics as a finishing grit for a micro bevel. If you want to know more about how a the ceramics compare to other abrasive types be sure to check out Mark76’s blog posts on the subject as well as this thread.

    Nice, again this is great information, thank you. I have read through Clay’s analysis of the diamond film really interesting stuff. So in your opinion for a “mirror” finish what do you use past the 1500 stone? 1500->6 micron diamond film-> ?

    I really appreciate everyone’s prompt responses. Thank you and Happy New Year!

    PS: Optic Planet has 10% until midnight tomorrow. (great price on WE stuff btw) plus Free shipping

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    #44306
    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 64
    • Replies: 2474

    Jake, I invite you to take advantage of the Forum search feature.  That will be your best bet to get concise thorough information of each of the mediums, as you tackle them.  Trying to answer all your questions in one thread would only give you a light insight and certainly over look experience of many long time users.  Many well experienced users may not actively read the Forum and may miss your questions.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

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    #44308
    Justin Fournier
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 54

    Marc is right, but quick answer. I use Diamond to 1500, diamond lapping films in 6, 3, 1.5 micron. Leather strops in 4/2 & 1/0.5 micron emulsion. I have recently bought this complete progression new replacing my previous progression, Diamond to 1000, Super fine and micro fine ceramic, then leather strops with 1/0.5 micron paste, so have not broken in everything as much as I would like. Results are already outstanding.

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    #44315
    sksharp
    Participant
    • Topics: 9
    • Replies: 397

    Hello Jake, I guess I’ll throw my 2 cents in.

    50 thru 1500 diamonds. 6, 3 and 1.5 or 1 micron diamond lapping films. 4/2 and 1/.5 diamond emulsions on kangaroo leather. I only use the 50 thru 100 grit if needed. This progression has worked very well for me.

    When trying for the best finish I have found that when I go to the strops that “backing up” is helpful. I mean going from a 1 or 1.5 micron lapping film back to the strops starting at 4 mic. thru .5 mic. emulsions. The 5/3.5 and 1/.5 pastes on leather can produce a good result as well.

    Generally speaking though the best looking edges will be the ones you are willing to spend the most time on.

     

     

     

    6 users thanked author for this post.
    #44744
    Gazillion
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 24

    Good morning MarcH,

    I think it’d be wise for me to do more reading and less buying. Thank you for this reply / information.

    Derek

     

    Welcome to the forum Jake. I haven’t found switching mediums back and forth, (diamonds > ceramics > diamonds > ceramics) to be a effective course of action. The scratch patterns of the mediums are different. There’s more to it then just reducing particle size as you go from coarse to fine. I agree with Justin that the ceramics take a long time to break in before you’ll see their true benefits. If you don’t have the ceramics yet, you can certainly do with out them. Diamonds through 1500 in my experience the way to go. At this point, after the 1500 grit diamond, you can chose to strop the edge and it should be very sharp. For a new user, as you say you are, I’d wait till your diamond stones are broken in more. At the same time you’ll be gaining more experience with your technique and your WEPS. Then in a month or two with some sharpening under your belt, the Diamond lapping films are a good way to go to get the ultimate sharp and shinny knife edge. Right now, with your diamond stones still so new and your level of experience I don’t think you’ll gain the true benefits of the Diamond lapping film quit yet. If you don’t mind the investment and the fact that the films are a fairly costly, a consumable commodity, then have at it. You won’t hurt anything using them. You just may not see your best results yet.

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #44749
    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 64
    • Replies: 2474

    Please take a look at the results I got sharpening the Kershaw “Lifter” Hybrid Knife, (current active thread).  I did just what I told Derek, where he quoted me above.  I sharpened the Kershaw with only a diamond stone progression: 100 grit >>1500 grit then finished the edge with cow leather strops with Diamond spray emulsions (4µ and 2µ).  The photo of the mirror reflective bevel is proof that it only takes time and technique to get similar results.

    Bevel-Shot-1
    As a side note, the diamond stone set I used, was recently purchased and is still relatively new.  The set is not really quite broken-in fully, yet.  The finer grit diamond stones, what I call, “the edge finishing stones” are the first stones of the set that will break in.  The coarser lower grit stones do require more time and use to get them well broken -in.

    When you think you’re done with the grit and ready to move on, do 50 more strokes to each side.  More strokes never hurts.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

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