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Edge-On-Up Professional Edge Tester

This topic contains 34 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  MarcH 09/25/2018 at 8:20 am.

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  • #47600

    Expidia
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    Does anyone here have any experience with one of these testers? I’ve seen them discussed on other forums.  I’d link to it, but I don’t want to run an ad for them especially if they are overkill for a WE edge hobbiest.

    My forum seach did not turn up any mentions in our threads.

    #47601

    Organic
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    • Topics: 17
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    They have been discussed a bit in some recent threads, but I have not used one. I think it would be a fun tool to have as a way of quantifying the sharpening results I’m getting but I don’t have a need for it and it is kind of expensive.

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    #47602

    MarcH
    Moderator
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    Paul it’s a pretty cool and expensive toy to quantify the sharpness of one very tiny spot along the entire knife edge.  You test a spot, replace the test clip, test another spot then replace another test clip.  Yes it gives a quantified test result, point by point, down the knife edge.  If used properly and  systematically, employed as a learning tool, I’m sure you can use it to improve your overall sharpening technique to a level where you’re sharpening the entire knife edge along the full length of a knife to a very high and very sharp quantifiable standard.  Then you have to find the balance in your sharpening technique between the shinny polished aesthetics edge and the sharpness test passing edge.

    For me I’m not sure that quantifying the knife edge sharpness is all that important.  I already quantify my edge’s sharpness, in a sense, when I conduct a paper push/slice test on the knife edge as soon as I un-clamp it from the Wicked Edge.  We all know there is a correlation between the edge geometry, thickness and bevel angle to contribute to the test results.  The tester is a cool tool and can allow you to learn a lot about edge science.  My regret is that you have to un-clamp the knife to use it.  I’ve been trying to conceptualize a way to utilize this tester on a still clamped knife…any thoughts Tom?

    Forum member “jabas2000” is the only one I’ve seen employ it in our Forum.   Paul, you might contact him.

     

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #47604

    Expidia
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    Thanks for those comments.  From what I’ve read March’s point of it only testing “one” spot on the blade per disposable clip struck me as I’d be going through those clips for other areas of the edge and they are like $23 a pop per box (plus shipping I would guess). Their $179 model uses a wire on a spool instead of clips, but I’m sure they have the cost of the number of tests you get per spool factored in to be as expensive as the cheaper model with the disposable clips.

    The device caught my eye in another forum, so I figured I’d ask about it here.  If it was not for that ongoing expense of each test, it does not sound like a bad device.

    One thread I read where they were checking for edge sharpness . . . they use a certain brand of rolling papers for consistency to test each finished edge’s sharpness.

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    #47605

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 58
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    There are different price point models of that particular testing machines.  The most expensive device is for the sharper range knives like I believe we’d be needing.  I believe you can buy the testing medium and refill your own testing clips as opposed to purchasing and using the disposable clips.

    The experience you gain with and what you’ll learn from the first few knives you test, diligently and methodically, will certainly pass on and be applied to all future knives you sharpen.  Based on that thinking after you have refined your technique to achieve the results in the tested quantitative range you seek,  I don’t think you’ll need to use the device as often.  Only once or twice per blade would probably keep you on track with your sharpening quality.

     

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #47608

    jabas2000
    Participant
    • Topics: 3
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    It is a nice gadget, and it is a confirmation whether you have done the sharpening of your knife properly.
    As an example, I sharpend a Steel Will cutjack last week. It felt good. But after measuring on the edgeonup it turned out that I had missed the epax. It gave 240 grams.
    So I re-sharpened the knife. Now with the result of 100 grams.You can of course test the knife on several places. Then you have a good overall picture.
    For examples see my youtube channel.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTdwKBUODsHOb4usica_xVw
    Jan
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by  jabas2000.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by  jabas2000.
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    #47612

    Expidia
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    • Topics: 39
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    It is a nice gadget, and it is a confirmation whether you have done the sharpening of your knife properly. As an example, I sharpend a Steel Will cutjack last week. It felt good. But after measuring on the edgeonup it turned out that I had missed the epax. It gave 240 grams. So I re-sharpened the knife. Now with the result of 100 grams.You can of course test the knife on several places. Then you have a good overall picture. For examples see my youtube channel. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTdwKBUODsHOb4usica_xVw
    Jan

    Great vid Jabas!  Im glad you tested the sharpness as your last step.  I said to myself I hope he’s going to test it one last time!  Have you ever got one below 100?  Im thinking of getting one for a gift for my WE office mate who has been complaining of losing his sharp edge as he progresses through the DLP’s and strops.  I got him a set of Nano strops and the .25 and .50 diamond sprays.  I think he’s apexing initially,  but loses sharpness as he progress’s.  My guess he’s applying too much pressure with his leather strops that takes the sharpness off as the leather rolls over the edge.  He knows to drop down 1-1.5 degrees with leather.

    If I have to pay shipping I might as well get one for myself too 😜

    Questions:

    1. Do you feel the $179 T50 (middle of their line is good enough for our Wicked Edges)?

    .2 Do you know where to get the testimg medium that March alluded to above rather than pay more for the Bess disposable clips.

    Thx

    Paul

    #47613

    jabas2000
    Participant
    • Topics: 3
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    If I lived in America, I would order the A. And then ask Mike Brubacher for the new ATF-10G and KF-10R. The only reason I have a B is because I have to pay more than 50% in tax and shipping in the Netherlands, if I order something from abroad. This is the e-mail address of Mike.

    mikeb@edgeonup.com

    Send him an e-mail and he will answer all your questions.

    Jan

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by  jabas2000.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by  jabas2000.
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    #47625

    Expidia
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    • Topics: 39
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    Jan, I sent mike an email to call me.  From their site the testing wire testing media roll is good for 325 tests for $23.  This would be more than enough for me as a home WE hobbiest as I don’t plan to use it to test my way across the blade length after each sharpening session.  The WE system itself puts an even edge across the blade length just by the nature of the stones on the rods sweeping the exact same plane each time (I would think).  Seems to me the need for multiple testing across the blade would be more impartant for freehand sharpening.

    The wire roll that is included probably is only a starter roll with less tests.  The testing “clips” unit comes with only 25.  A 100 clip package is $17.

    Thanks again for your input into the Bess sharpness tester.  I’ll report back after I talk ith Mike from “Edge on up”.

     

     

     

     

    #47629

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 58
    • Replies: 1884

    I don’t plan to use it to test my way across the blade length after each sharpening session. The WE system itself puts an even edge across the blade length just by the nature of the stones on the rods sweeping the exact same plane each time (I would think).

    The Wicked Edge System is a very fine precise hand tool when operated properly with consistent technique.  It’s up to us as operators to apply “an even edge across the blade length just by the nature of the stones on the rods sweeping the exact same plane each time.”  That is, while we hold the stones in our hands apply pressure and weight while guiding the stones motion up and down the guide rods as it sweeps back and forth across the same plane.  The WE is not an electric mechanical machine.  There is a lot of variations in our motion as we work with two hands held floating in air, probably unsupported, as we move them up and down and forward and backward sometimes free willed and an unplanned, other times with more of an effort placed on uniformity.  Just because we are using a Wicked Edge System it doesn’t necessarily mean we will have “an even edge across the blade length just by the nature of the stones on the rods sweeping the exact same plane each time.”

    This is why I place so much emphasis on technique and consistency.  I would make use of this tester making multiple tests along the knife edge, at least 4 or 5 depending on the length.  Of course the tip and heel, then the other places decided by the blade type and style to align with areas of the most expected use and wear.  When I first use it I would want to be organized and systematic collecting my test data.   The data gathered could be charted to show the variation in the sharpness reading across each individual knife blade but also compared to other knife results to determine if the individual variations indicate a trend or technique failure or inconsistency that allows for the same shortcomings seen with all sharpening efforts possibly on every knife.  By looking at a simple chart it could tell a lot about an individuals sharpening ability.   After time and practice and refinement of technique guided by the data, I think only a spot check of known problematic blade areas would be helpful for quality control.

    It’s an appealing toy and tool.  I would want the model with the lowest resolution that matched my budget.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

    #47645

    Expidia
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    • Topics: 39
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    Well, I’ll soon find out as the middle T50 B model is being delivered in two days.  I bought two, as one is for a gift for a WE enthusiast that has everything :0).

    Ordered an extra roll of testing wire medium.  Mike their c/s rep said because of their upgraded testing fixture (the shiny alumium test fixture in the middle that holds the testing wire) He said where as this new design gets more tests now out of the wire . . .  previously it was 325 tests, now it might be upwards towards 500 test per spool.  I guess their newer models already come with the latest KF10R (knife fulcrum) that Jan suggested I also ask him about.

    If this new styled center piece test fixture that holds the wire medium can yield 500 tests per spool of testing wire that would bring the cost down around 3.5 cents a test.  Not as cheap as newspaper, but might be a lot more consistent.  All my edges can slice a strip of news paper like butter, but I expect as March suggests i can to chart a particular blade’s sharpness by viewing it in digital numbers . . . the lower the numbers, the sharper the blade.  They include a chart to match up a style of each knife’s factory edge sharpness number as shown in their video.

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    #47653

    NotSharpEnuff
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    I don’t think you will be disappointed.  I’ve been using one for about a year and it has helped me improve my sharpening skills.

    I still push cut newspaper as a test but with the PT50 I can record the starting and ending sharpness for customers.  20171208_200115
    20171208_200115
    20171209_134509
    20171202_150114

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    #47658

    MarcH
    Moderator
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    NotSharpEnuf would you be so kind as to share us, Forum readers, the bevel angle and sharpening progression you used to achieve that difference in cutting performance.  Do you test or check the edge reading in more then one place on the knife edge to verify your technique is consistent across the entire knife edge?

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

    #47659

    NotSharpEnuff
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
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    .jpg”]

    Marc,

    You bet!  Let me take the questions one at a time.

    I set the bevel angle mostly between 17-20 dps but I have had a couple of kitchen knives down to 15 dps.  It all depends on the blade steel and grind.  Unless I’m asked to put a specific edge angle on the knife, I try to match the existing bevel with a sharpie if there is one.  If the blade needs to have a new bevel set, I usually go with 18 or 19 dps for EDC work knives.

    I normally take three readings before and after sharpening.  Again, based on the blade it would be forward toward the tip, at the belly, and the rear toward the handle.  How I do it is to make a sharpie line from the edge to the spine in three places.  This way I have an approximation of where I tested before I sharpened the sharpie line off the edge.

    I’ve learned to start with the highest grit that will get me to the apex in a reasonable amount of time.  The 200 diamond is where I try to start.  If I have to go to the 100 it takes me a lot more time at the 20o to remove the previous scratch pattern.  There have been a handful of blades that needed the 50-80 grit.  I was basically sharpening a spoon when I started.  The one knife I really remember scored over 1200 grams of force (gf) before sharpening on the tester.

    My grit progression is 200, 400, 600, 800 diamond.  At each paddle change I use the angle gauge to ensure my angle doesn’t change.  Also, I slide the sharpie down the middle of the edge.  I use a red sharpie as it is very visible under the microscope.  Until all the red is gone from the edge of the edge, I keep working that grit.  Sometimes I find I have to change the fine adjustment on one side or the other because I’m not getting to the apex.  Some blade grinds don’t clamp very well and the blade shifts a little as I sharpen.

    Once I finish with the 800 diamond I switch to the Chosera spray and go stones.  I really wanted the Shapton glass stones but I was told they quit making them for the WE.  For the Chosera paddles I finish with 400 and 800.  I had to make a stainless steel strip to hook on to the plastic paddle edge so my angle cube could be used.

    Over the many knives I’ve sharpened, I’ve found that looking straight down at the apex with the microscope tells me when I’m done.  If there is no light reflected off the apex, I’m at or better than razor sharp. On the tester, it will show less than 150 and most times => 100 gf.  Some knives just won’t be cooperative.  My PM2 in S110V still shows a sliver of reflected light and the tester shows 120-160.

    FYI, if you use the clips the reading will be about 20% lower than using the ATF.  If you wiggle the clip ears a little to reduce the tension you will get  much closer the ATF reading.  That’s why the clips are not certified by the BESS.  If you just want a relative change from start to finish they work just fine without the wiggle..jpg”]
    .jpg”]

    Hope that wasn’t too much info.

    Ed K.

     

     

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    #47662

    NotSharpEnuff
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    Whoops, it’s late.  Should have been <=100 in the above post.

    Also, I just noticed that my Chosera grit is wrong above.  I go 200-400-600-800 diamond and then 800-1000 Chosera.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by  NotSharpEnuff. Reason: Posted late at night!
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