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Edge angle and finish?

This topic contains 16 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Eamon Mc Gowan 02/24/2014 at 9:31 pm.

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  • #8146

    wickededge
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 121
    • Replies: 2906

    How best to prepare your blade for batoning, fuzzsticks and all other camp/field tasks. Leo, please help! 🙂

    -Clay

    #13765

    Geocyclist
    Participant
    • Topics: 25
    • Replies: 524

    Bump – I would like to know.

    I am getting ready to sharpen a 6″ Doug Ritter MK2. This is a high flat grind that is nearly 5mm thick. The factory edge is pretty uniform. I am guessing about 20 deg. per side. Steel on this knife is 1095. As this is a field knife my goals are to not have to sharpen it, roll edges or chip out. Therefore I am willing to go a little more obtuse than I normally sharpen too.

    #17323

    Geocyclist
    Participant
    • Topics: 25
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    I finally got around to sharpening the Doug Ritter Mk2. I did it at 22.5 deg per side. This was vey close to factory angle which I liked. The blade is 1095 and 5mm thick.

    I used diamonds to 1000# and stopped. Other than kitchen knives this is the first thick fixed blade I have done. It will cut phone book paper but it does not slice through it with zero effort or zero snags.

    My question is how fine does anyone else sharpen bush crafting knives?

    #17330

    Leo Barr
    Participant
    • Topics: 26
    • Replies: 812

    Not sure which Leo you are addressing ; virtuovice has some interesting solutions although they are done freehand on Shaptons & Choseras for feather sticks and battening he favours a high convex thin on the left side (if you are right handed ) culminating in a convex bevel the (say 18Ëš)(right side bevel say 27Ëš) other side has a flatter grind with a high angle convex bevel so sharpened a little like a chisel edges knife.
    The idea is that the blade stays shallow when feather sticking or when taking meat off the bone since the convex edge and grind allows the edge to stay shallow or in the case of bone it will tend to not dig in.
    The total sum of the bevel angle should still equal that of at least 45Ëš( since this has been done on bench stones the angles are ball park not absolute but left side has much more curve than the right side and the bevel is asymmetric). If the bevels chip too easily then steepen them !
    I have not tried this on bone since I do not hunt but it feather sticks well. It was a very blunt knife when I got it and it is very sharp I could do more for the aesthetics of it but it is a working knife Chinese made Boker D2 steel.

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    #17341

    Leo James Mitchell
    Participant
    • Topics: 64
    • Replies: 687

    Confusing with the two Leo’s eh! Sounds like the two tenors!
    Whenever I have a knife to be used for survival or bushcraft, I try to present the strongest possible yet practical edge geometry i.e. a convex edge. Notice I said edge not grind. I took my ESEE 6 and using the diamonds paddles laid on a 17 dps edge; from there using the 400/600 and the 800/1000 paddles moved up with delicate strokes to 19 dps and again to 21 dps setting. Finally I used the leather strops through the pastes gently melding any shoulders I created into one smooth convex edge.
    The result is a super sharp wedging edge that is strong enough to baton hard wood and delicate enough to bring up fine shavings on a fuzz stick. The convex edge is imitative of an axe edge giving both strength and keenness.
    Hmmm! Clear as mud eh! The old noodle isn’t up to concise and clear anymore, but you get the idea. You get the advantage of convexing without having to grind down the whole geometry of the blade.Of course if you want to grind in a whole convex geometry like Virtuvoice(did I get his name right?)go for it and you will have an even stronger knife, but a lot of work that a klutz like me would not even try.For me, simple is good.

    Leo the ancient as opposed to Leo the navigator! ROTFLMAO!

    #17358

    Geocyclist
    Participant
    • Topics: 25
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    Leo (Mitch)

    This is clear. How long does this take you, compared to just putting a single bevel and stropping “normal”? Sounds like a lot more work, but I have never done a convex. How long does it take to cut the next 2 angles, and how long to blend with the strops.

    For me this knife is a knife I just keep in the backpack as knife#2, as I feel like I should always take 2 knives into the field. While hiking I don’t cut much and when I do I reach for the pocket knife as the sheath knife is in the pack rather than on me.

    That being said I am looking at replacing the Ritter Mk2 (6″ and heavy) with an ESEE 4 for a fixed blade hiking knife. So I might wear the ESEE as it is not too big.

    #17360

    Leo James Mitchell
    Participant
    • Topics: 64
    • Replies: 687

    Leo (Mitch)

    This is clear. How long does this take you, compared to just putting a single bevel and stropping “normal”? Sounds like a lot more work, but I have never done a convex. How long does it take to cut the next 2 angles, and how long to blend with the strops.

    For me this knife is a knife I just keep in the backpack as knife#2, as I feel like I should always take 2 knives into the field. While hiking I don’t cut much and when I do I reach for the pocket knife as the sheath knife is in the pack rather than on me.

    That being said I am looking at replacing the Ritter Mk2 (6″ and heavy) with an ESEE 4 for a fixed blade hiking knife. So I might wear the ESEE as it is not too big.

    I had all the ESEE knives and the 4 was perhaps the optimal camp knife. All my ESEE’s had this kind of edge. It does not take long to do after the finished first bevel. Depends on the steel. The 1095 one finds on the ESEE knives sharpens up quickly. I can’t time it for you so experimenting is good here. Each of the secondary angles tale a little bit more work than micro beveling. There is a better explanation than mine by Clay somewhere in the instructions here on the site. Experiment with it and you will know when you have it ’cause the knife will slice like spit…a good microscope or jeweler’s lens will help too. Just remember the whole process after the main bevel takes little time with softly caressing strokes of the paddles. LOL! Make love to your blade so to speak.

    Leo

    #17361

    Leo James Mitchell
    Participant
    • Topics: 64
    • Replies: 687

    Actually my friends call me Mitch so maybe that would be best for ending any Leo confusion. I am the eldest too at nearly 79. I think Leo Barr is rather younger. So perhaps I will sign myself off as Mitch from now on.

    best regards
    Mitch

    #17364

    Eamon Mc Gowan
    Participant
    • Topics: 17
    • Replies: 513

    Actually my friends call me Mitch so maybe that would be best for ending any Leo confusion. I am the eldest too at nearly 79. I think Leo Barr is rather younger. So perhaps I will sign myself off as Mitch from now on.

    best regards
    Mitch

    Funny how you picture someone in your head? By your style and different chats we have had on the forum? I always figured you for 35-40 years old. You have a very young style Mr Mitch :woohoo:

    #17365

    Leo Barr
    Participant
    • Topics: 26
    • Replies: 812

    Since you are senior to me I am 56 this year you sign off as Leo & I shall sign off as Leo Nav since I quite like that !!

    #17366

    Leo James Mitchell
    Participant
    • Topics: 64
    • Replies: 687

    Sounds good to me! I will be Leo as usual and you will be Leo Nav…the Navigator! Like Vasco da Gama.

    Leo

    #17367

    Gib Curry
    Participant
    • Topics: 18
    • Replies: 240

    Leo (Mitch)

    This is clear. Just remember the whole process after the main bevel takes little time with softly caressing strokes of the paddles. LOL! Make love to your blade so to speak.

    Leo

    Make love; not swarf.

    ~~~~
    For Now,

    Gib

    Φ

    "Everyday edge for the bevel headed"

    "Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

    #17369

    Leo James Mitchell
    Participant
    • Topics: 64
    • Replies: 687

    Indeed Gib! A new saying to go viral…Make love not swarf!! LOL!

    Leo

    #17370

    Leo James Mitchell
    Participant
    • Topics: 64
    • Replies: 687

    Actually my friends call me Mitch so maybe that would be best for ending any Leo confusion. I am the eldest too at nearly 79. I think Leo Barr is rather younger. So perhaps I will sign myself off as Mitch from now on.

    best regards
    Mitch

    Funny how you picture someone in your head? By your style and different chats we have had on the forum? I always figured you for 35-40 years old. You have a very young style Mr Mitch :woohoo:[/quote]

    Eamon, I would wager that you would be further surprised to find out that I am a mere 5 foot 5 inches tall in the morning on a good day, I have a white beard, I have been mostly inactive for the past 5 years due to my health so I am way heavy and look kind of like a Greek Santa Clause…I am of Greek descent…Leonidas Mihelakos at your service. I used to be able to lift double my body weight in the clean and jerk when I weighed 119 pounds many years ago, but now I couldn’t roll it across the floor.
    I am lucky now that I have a forest across the street from my new house, so my 11 year old grandson and I can get out and do things providing we move slowly and I don’t try to rush. There I can teach him how to make fuzz sticks and how to build a fire using a fire stick of magnesium and a striker with a bit of fluff from our dryer as super kindling and how to use a compass for map reading. He is now learning how to use the WEPS so he can look after the knives he will inherit from me. His favourite knife is a Bark River Gunny and the knife that scares him most is my Fairbairn-Sykes custom made commando fighter…it looks just like what it was designed to do and he is a gentle boy.
    Funny eh, the way we think people will look seldom matches the truth of the matter.Read my short biography on the welcome column for maybe a clearer picture.

    Cheers
    Leo

    #17372

    Mikedoh
    Moderator
    • Topics: 38
    • Replies: 560

    When I was little, I had my own way of making fire using “flint” and steel. My brother, 5 years older than me, was able to catch a spark on char cloth, from striking a piece of flint against a piece of an old file. Me, I only got battered fingers from striking them with the flint. No sparks were produced, only howls.

    My neighbor was a smoker, and would sometimes send over his old, unwanted lighters for us kids to play with. We didn’t have any fluid though. I would remove the wick, place a piece of char cloth in the wind guard and give the spark wheel some mighty turns.

    Drier lint works well for capturing sparks so long as your lint was from a load of cotton clothes and not synthetic fabrics.

    Mike

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