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Diamond Stones Different???

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This topic contains 15 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  MarcH 12/28/2018 at 10:20 am.

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  • #48678

    NorCalQ
    Participant
    • Topics: 32
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    Hope I’m posting in the right place.  I just took a close look at my almost new 100 grit stones.  I was confused, as one looks like it should, but the other looks like a 200 grit.  Side-by-side, it looks like I have two different stones, but the same color holders.  Hope the pic comes thru…

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    #48680

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 57
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    I just visually compared a pair of almost new, recently broken-in, 100/200 grit stone pairs against a very old well used pair of 100/200 grit stones.  There is very little difference visually in their appearance.  If the diamond stones were not mounted in a color distinguishing handles,  I could not discern between the 100 grit and the 200 grit both old and new.  To me they appear that similar.  That is not to say you are wrong.

    I can say the scratch patterns, applied to a knife edge, when viewed under magnification should show a discernible difference.  The feel should also be different enough from the coarser 100 grit to the finer 200 grit, to feel a difference with very light pressure.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #48681

    NorCalQ
    Participant
    • Topics: 32
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    Not quite sure I understand what you’re saying.  Both handles have about 3 blades use on them.  From top to bottom, they look very different.  Is that normal?

    I will take your advice and try to look closely at the scratch pattern…maybe a side-by-side comparison.  Just got my microscope, so I should be able to take a close look.  If I’m really lucky, I’ll be able to post a pic.

    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  NorCalQ.
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    #48683

    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 33
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    From the photo alone, I’d have to agree that they look like different grits – probably 100 and 200.  While it’s possible that whoever was assembling the handles might have gotten them mixed up, or the supplier (DMT?) might have slipped one plate of a different grit in the box they are shipped in, it’s something we haven’t seen here on the forum.

    Question:  What does the opposite side of the same handles look like?  Do we have two pairs of mismatched socks?

    Marc is correct about the scratch patterns and the tactile feedback being the real test.

    If the platens are wrong, you may get the chance to experience the removing and remounting of the platens.

    #48684

    NorCalQ
    Participant
    • Topics: 32
    • Replies: 92

    Yes.  One paddle has 100 and 200 and the other has, what looks like 200 and 200.

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    #48685

    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 33
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    Call Wicked Edge’s customer service guy and they’ll get you a new handle, lickadeesplit.  If they let you keep the oddball handle, hang on to it.  Figure out a rotation where you use all three handles.   If you keep rotating the three handles, you’ll extend their life by about half.

    After seven years, my original 100/200 platens still work.  I had some serious edge damage early on and now I only use the 200, and then only if I know it won’t hit the apex, as when I flatten the edge to remove serious chips and dents.

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    #48686

    NorCalQ
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    • Topics: 32
    • Replies: 92

    Done.

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    #48718

    NorCalQ
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    • Topics: 32
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    Well, as would be no surprise to most of you WE users, Kyle is taking care of it.  He got my message and pic and said that they do look like different “stones” and is sending me a replacement set, just like that.  Now that’s customer service.  I’m sure the second set will be correct, so my issue is solved.  Thank you for your responses.

     

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    #48731

    NorCalQ
    Participant
    • Topics: 32
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    Marc, here’s what I got….the first is the coarse looking stone.  They definitely look different to me and when I worked them, the coarser stone did in fact feel coarse, compared to the other.

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    #48734

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 57
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    NorCalQ – Here’s an added lesson to take away form your photographic observation exercise:

    You can see from the photographs that you have apexed the knife edge with your stone work.  The bevel right at the knife edge appears ragged and in line with the scratches and groves left from the stones showing me you have a bevel that is uniform from the shoulder to the apex.  This is the visual method I use for determining I have reached the apex, (i.e., apexed the edge), with out the need to create a burr and waste the rolled over steel.

    With each subsequent finer grits the raggedness will get less and less as the groves are shallower and closer together.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #48735

    NorCalQ
    Participant
    • Topics: 32
    • Replies: 92

    Great lesson Marc!  I thought that ragged edge meant I was causing damage to the edge by chipping it out.  I never considered that the edge was part of the scratch pattern.  Thanks!

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    #48736

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 57
    • Replies: 1752

    I look to have that parallel, consistent, scratch pattern from bevel shoulder to knife edge, from the heel of the knife to the tip of the knife, and on both sides of the knife, before I move onto the next, lower grit.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #48761

    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 33
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    Another lesson to be taken is that the abrasives all leave a pattern of scratches at the apex as well as on the facet of the bevel.  You can work the next grit until the visible scratches are gone, but the jagged edge at the apex is likely to still be there.  To achieve a higher level of sharpness, you’ll want to replace those scratches with scratches from your current grit.  I will take extra strokes after I’ve fully removed the scratches in the bevel faces.  For instance, if it takes 25 strokes of my 800 grit stones to replace the scratches from my 600-grit, I’ll then take 25 or 40 additional strokes to further refine the edge.

    Put your microscope on its highest magnification to see what is happening to the apex.

    Many ( or most) of our forum members may disagree, but I believe that edge-trailing strokes (upward strokes) will leave a more ragged edge than edge-leading (downward) strokes.  This is especially true for the lower grits.  The steel particles that make up the edge are anchored less securely than steel surrounded on all sides by more steel.  If a sharp object (diamond grit particles here) pushes steel toward the edge, it’s more likely that larger chunks along the edge are prone to breakage.  I try to always avoid edge-trailing strokes for grits 600 and below.  With higher grits, I’ll use scrubbing strokes, but I’ll apply lest pressure on the upstroke.  Of course, with film or strops, you are more or less forced into upstrokes, but these have very high grit values and aren’t likely to remove enough steel to damage the edge.

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    #48762

    NorCalQ
    Participant
    • Topics: 32
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    So much to learn.  Definitely not plug and play.  I wish I were one of those for whom WE just works, right off the bat.  Sure wish I had someone standing over my shoulder, telling what I was doing wrong and what I was doing right…someone that could take me to the very end and say, “See…and you thought you couldn’t get wicked edges!”

    #48764

    Organic
    Participant
    • Topics: 17
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    I like to learn from videos. Its like getting to stare over someone’s shoulder while they sharpen. This is an old one, but there’s a lot of good information shared in it. He doesn’t do everything the way I would do it, but his results are nice.

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