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Diamond Emulsion VS Stropping Paste

Recent Forums Main Forum Stropping Diamond Emulsion VS Stropping Paste

This topic contains 28 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  wickededge 04/03/2017 at 10:25 am.

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  • #37949

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 58
    • Replies: 1857

    Can anyone offer their experience using the Diamond Spray Emulsions (1 micron & 0.5 micron) on regular leather strops VS using the same 1 micron or 0.5 micron size Diamond paste on similar regular leather strops. Particularly: effect, efficiency, longevity, and ease of use. I still have paste left and a new, never used set of regular leather strops. I’m trying to decide if I want to buy the spray emulsion or just keep using the paste.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

    #37951

    Mark76
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 179
    • Replies: 2760

    A Dutch dictionary defines and emulsion as a “concept from the chemistry with which a mixture is meant which consists of immiscible liquids which do not form stable and homogeneous mixture under normal conditions.” It seems to be the same as a spray… Is there anyone who can confirm this?

    Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #37962

    Mark76
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 179
    • Replies: 2760

    I must be wrong. Because when I look at Products/Accessories/Stropping Compounds, I see both emulsions and sprays. So I assume there is a difference between them.

    Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

    #37964

    Organic
    Participant
    • Topics: 17
    • Replies: 853

    I think the reason there is a difference in the way they are described is that they come from two manufacturers (Jende and Ken Schwartz). Both brands are emulsions that are dispensed by a pump actuated spray bottle. The definition of emulsion that you cited is correct. The study of emulsions is not an area in which I specialize, but I am a chemist.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #37969

    Mark76
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 179
    • Replies: 2760

    Organic, do you have both? That could indeed be a reason. However, Jende does make a difference between sprays and emulsion (see this page – below)

    And how do you know these emulsions come from Jende? I didn’t know he (Tom) made this stuff too. But I took a look at his website and saw he now makes a much wider range of products for the WE that were previously only available from Ken, including Shapton stones and even Nanocloth.

    Jende make polycristalline diamond stuff in the same sizes and amounts WE sells. Only they also make 0.1 mu diamond emulsion (WE doesn’t sell this, but .125 CBN instead) and 0.025 mu diamond emulsion (which is not sold by WE, but WE do sell 0.050 mu diamond emulsion).

     

    Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

    #37972

    cbwx34
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 57
    • Replies: 1505

    … Jende does make a difference between sprays and emulsion (see this page – at the bottom). And how do you know these emulsions come from Jende? I didn’t know he (Tom) made this stuff too. …

    Jende makes a distinction between products that “stay mixed” (the emulsion line) vs. products that “need to be shaken” prior to use (sprays).  I’m guessing one is oil based and the other is water based. (Don’t know if this is the real definition of “emulsion”, but that’s the difference).

    And yes, Jende makes their own line of products now.

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    #37973

    wickededge
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 121
    • Replies: 2900

    The particles in the sprays do settle and need to be shaken to mix them up and the emulsions do a better job of staying mixed but can also settle. Emulsions, as they are provided by Jende and Ken Schwartz, are gels with a consistency of hand sanitizer. I’ve tested the emulsions from Jende quite a bit and they are really good. I’ve got samples from Ken as well that I’m planning on testing but haven’t found the time yet. The paste works well and is very affordable but does not work as well as the emulsions.

    -Clay

    3 users thanked author for this post.
    #37977

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 58
    • Replies: 1857

    The paste works well and is very affordable but does not work as well as the emulsions.

    Clay do you get better stropping results on knives with the spray emulsions than the paste? Does the spray stay on the leather any better than the paste? With the paste my leather gets shiny black and hard and I don’t feel that it’s really doing anything. When I reapply the paste to the used leather strops I don’t think it stays put like it did when the leather was new and fresh.

    Marc

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

    #37978

    Organic
    Participant
    • Topics: 17
    • Replies: 853

    Clay’s answer clarifies the matter. I do have the 4 micron  / 2 micron diamond emulsions from Jende but I don’t have any experience with the sprays so I didn’t know that the diamonds settle with those products. Since an emulsion is a mixture of non-miscible materials that does not rapidly separate, the diamond sprays are not emulsions and would be better classified as suspensions.

    My professional experience with emulsions is that I occasionally encounter them when I’m trying to separate the layers of a water / oil mixture. Obtaining an emulsion in that scenario means you’re going to have an unfortunate day ahead of you.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #37982

    Mark76
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 179
    • Replies: 2760

    How do you like the WE emulsions? Can you compare them to the sprays/pastes?

    Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

    #37987

    Organic
    Participant
    • Topics: 17
    • Replies: 853

    How do you like the WE emulsions? Can you compare them to the sprays/pastes?

    I don’t have the any of the diamond paste or diamond suspension products to compare with the emulsions. I do think that the emulsions work well.

    #37989

    Jende Industries
    Participant
    • Topics: 14
    • Replies: 342

    The major differences between the Jende Sprays vs. Jende Emulsions are the obvious liquid of the sprays vs. the cream-like consistency of the emulsions. As previously mentioned, the sprays do settle more readily than the emulsions. The emulsions will also eventually settle, but at a much slower rate. Either way, a good shake before use can never hurt 🙂 Aside from that, the real difference is the Jende emulsions have a higher concentration than the sprays. Both Jende products are water based and use the same poly diamonds.

    Since the next question will inevitably be about Jende vs. Schwartz, the quality of both Jende and Schwartz’s names speak for themselves. Most notable is the alcohol content of the Jende emulsion base/evaporant is far lower than that of the Schwartz emulsions, which has a high level of alcohol.

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    #37994

    Mark76
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 179
    • Replies: 2760

    Hey Tom, good to see you’re still alive here! The next question is not about Tom vs. Ken , but about poly-diamond vs. mono-diamond. Can you tell us what the exact difference is and how (and whether) poly-diamond works better than mono-diamond. I thought the now non-existant (?) HA-products, which were always the golden standard, were mono-diamond.

    Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

    #37998

    Jende Industries
    Participant
    • Topics: 14
    • Replies: 342

    lol…Thanks, Mark!

    The difference between the two is mono is more consistently shaped – like a pyramid, cube or rectangle, which cuts more linearly, kind of like one scratch per piece of diamond. Poly is shaped more like popped popcorn, with many facets in all directions, so it scratches more times per piece of diamond in the same space.

    According to google:

    Polycrystalline Diamond has many more cutting surfaces per particle, resulting in higher removal rates. As it cuts, it breaks down in its original shape, allowing for finer finishes in less time than when using monocrystalline diamond. Because polycrystalline has no cleavage planes, it cannot splinter like monocrystalline diamond. It causes less sub-surface deformation, and is excellent when polishing samples composed of different materials/hardness.

    Monocrystalline – Monocrystalline Diamond provides a cost effective means for good stock removal and finish. It has a slightly irregular shape with multiple cutting edges, and is recommended for general applications where polycrystalline’s features are not required.

     

     

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    #37999

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 58
    • Replies: 1857

    Do the Diamond spray emulsions apply any easier and stay on the leather strop any better than the older paste I’ve been using do? Is there any issue with over-spray when apply the spray emulsion to the leather strop I need to be careful of?

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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