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Depth Key Question

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  • #194
    Jimbo
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 2

    I have a Pro Package on order and was looking at the online instructions which raised a question. When setting up the knife they state the back of the knife should rest on the two pins. Then, while watching the Youtube video of Clay sharpening a Spyderco Paramilitary 2 it clearly shows in the close up the back of the blade is at angled in relation to the Depth Key holes contrary to the online instructions.

    Am I correct in assuming for regular knives like kithen knives where the cutting edge is close to being parallel with back of the blade that the back of the knife should rest on the pins? But for knives like Spyderos the blade should be set up with the cutting edge close to parallel to the base plate regardless if the back of the back of the blade rests on the pins or not?

    #195
    wickededge
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 122
    • Replies: 2934

    I have a Pro Package on order and was looking at the online instructions which raised a question. When setting up the knife they state the back of the knife should rest on the two pins. Then, while watching the Youtube video of Clay sharpening a Spyderco Paramilitary 2 it clearly shows in the close up the back of the blade is at angled in relation to the Depth Key holes contrary to the online instructions.

    Am I correct in assuming for regular knives like kithen knives where the cutting edge is close to being parallel with back of the blade that the back of the knife should rest on the pins? But for knives like Spyderos the blade should be set up with the cutting edge close to parallel to the base plate regardless if the back of the back of the blade rests on the pins or not?

    That’s a great question! I rarely set up a knife like that, it’s almost exclusively with Spyderco blades that go from such a large width to a small with over a short run. There are two reasons I mounted it that way: 1) to keep the tip close enough to the clamp so that the bevel stays even along the blade, I have to tilt it up so that the tip is high enough above the clamp that the tops of the Vise Jaws don’t interfere w/ the stones. 2) It works really well to rotate those blades upward since they don’t have a lot of curvature along the cutting surface and it’s easy to see when they are level. I usually get them level to the eye and then align them to some marking on the blade so I can repeat on the future.

    -Clay

    #210
    Jimbo
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 2

    Thanks Clay. That is what I was thinking. Since I have several Spydercos I will learn to set them up by eye to get them level and use the pins for my other knives.

    #217
    Doug Williams
    Participant
    • Topics: 3
    • Replies: 43

    I’m having one of those moments! Wisdom comes to some slowly, yet sometimes it still manages to arrive. 🙂

    This makes sense for over half the knives in the Spyderco catalog and many other knives as well. “Put the blade in the clamp so that the straight part of the edge is level”. This would minimize the change in the bevel angle due to curves at the tip. It also makes sense for a recurved blade. It makes sense for ANY blade where the spine is not parallel to the majority of the edge. In fact, I wonder if the instructions should read “Tilt the knife in the clamp so that as much of the edge as possible is level with the WEPS base”. Or perhaps this should just be in the “advanced user tips” part of the instructions? I do see the simplicity and repeatability of just putting the spine against both pins and that method is going to be fine for most knives. But it is going to be less than optimal for any knife where the spine isn’t close to parallel with the edge.

    Or am I placing too much importance on the edge being level? Am I once more in need of additional time to acquire wisdom?

    #218
    wickededge
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 122
    • Replies: 2934

    I’m having one of those moments! Wisdom comes to some slowly, yet sometimes it still manages to arrive. 🙂

    This makes sense for over half the knives in the Spyderco catalog and many other knives as well. “Put the blade in the clamp so that the straight part of the edge is level”. This would minimize the change in the bevel angle due to curves at the tip. It also makes sense for a recurved blade. It makes sense for ANY blade where the spine is not parallel to the majority of the edge. In fact, I wonder if the instructions should read “Tilt the knife in the clamp so that as much of the edge as possible is level with the WEPS base”. Or perhaps this should just be in the “advanced user tips” part of the instructions? I do see the simplicity and repeatability of just putting the spine against both pins and that method is going to be fine for most knives. But it is going to be less than optimal for any knife where the spine isn’t close to parallel with the edge.

    Or am I placing too much importance on the edge being level? Am I once more in need of additional time to acquire wisdom?

    I’m inclined to put it in the advanced user tips area. A great project might be to start building a library of knives with suggested angles and settings in the sharpener.

    -Clay

    #219
    Edwin Lurvey
    Participant
    • Topics: 5
    • Replies: 80

    A great project might be to start building a library of knives with suggested angles and settings in the sharpener.

    I think you could do this as a user created database on this forum.

    #220
    wickededge
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 122
    • Replies: 2934

    A great project might be to start building a library of knives with suggested angles and settings in the sharpener.

    I think you could do this as a user created database on this forum.[/quote]

    As of this morning, the webmaster is starting to create a Knife Wiki for that purpose. The idea is that users can log in and add their knives so it’s constantly growing.

    -Clay

    #221
    Doug Williams
    Participant
    • Topics: 3
    • Replies: 43

    Wow! That was quick! Bravo!

    #222
    Edwin Lurvey
    Participant
    • Topics: 5
    • Replies: 80

    A great project might be to start building a library of knives with suggested angles and settings in the sharpener.

    I think you could do this as a user created database on this forum.[/quote]

    As of this morning, the webmaster is starting to create a Knife Wiki for that purpose. The idea is that users can log in and add their knives so it’s constantly growing.[/quote]

    NICE!

    #223
    Dave Schur
    Participant
    • Topics: 7
    • Replies: 39

    Nice. I am in, but I will want to rethink some of my settings. I have learned on all of my spydercos that I initially clamped too rearward (in an attempt to grab the choil that was not FFG) and neglected the sweep at the front of the blade that is all important IMO, resulting in a broader bevel towards the front. I started in later knives to compensate by clamping more forward, or with better results for me, tipping the tip up a little to compensate:

    Knife Depth Position Angle
    Spyderco Military CF S30V 2 B.5 15
    Spyderco Navaja CF S30V 2 C 15
    Spyderco Superleaf CF VG-10 2 B 15
    Spyderco Manix 2 CF CTS-XHP 2 B.25 15
    Spyderco Paramilitary 2 CF S90V 2 B.5 15
    Spyderco Stretch 2 CF ZDP-189 2 B 15
    Spyderco Sage 1 CF S30V 1 B.5 15
    Spyderco Lum Chinese CF VG-10 2 A.5 15
    Spyderco Caly 3 CF ZDP-189 1 B 15
    Spyerco Chaparral CF S30V 1 B 15
    Spyderco Kiwi CF VG-10 1 A.5 15
    Lone Wolf Lobo CF S30V 1 B 15
    Kabar NextGen 440A 2 C.5 18
    Leatherman Charge TTi S30V 1 A.5 15

    The tipping that I do is not captured in a measurement though. For me it is more of an eye thing verified with a sharpie.

    #225
    Leo James Mitchell
    Participant
    • Topics: 64
    • Replies: 687

    What an excellent way to catalogue your knives and the necessary data for sharpening. Looking at mine, I am embarrassed!! This Wiki is such a great idea and so now I must redo my catalogue and rethink my edges based on what I have recently learned here.Nice work dschur!

    Best regards
    Leo

    #226
    CAWalter
    Participant
    • Topics: 0
    • Replies: 16

    The best trick to clamp the FFG blades such as the Spyderco Military is to use a narrow strip of 3M double stick the stuff that’s about 1/16″ thick. Cut a strip 3/32″-1/8″ and stick it at the top of each clamp jaw. A little care in getting the blade vertical as you tighten the top and then the bottom till the gap is parallel. Very solid and doubles to not mark the blade. Sometimes I fold the handle vertical 90 degrees to the blade to check the set-up with a square on both sides of the handle. The double stick idea came from Clay and the really nice young lady that answers the phone, very knife knowledgeable.

    CAW

    #227
    Michael Wagner
    Participant
    • Topics: 0
    • Replies: 4

    CAW,

    This might sound like a really silly question but after you “stick” the tape to the jaws of the clamp, do you remove the protective film from the opposite side of the tape? Tried this on a couple of FFG Spyderco’s but gave it up because I couldn’t seem to get the jaws to hold the blade without slipping; any thoughts?

    Thanks, Mike

    #228
    wickededge
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 122
    • Replies: 2934

    CAW,

    This might sound like a really silly question but after you “stick” the tape to the jaws of the clamp, do you remove the protective film from the opposite side of the tape? Tried this on a couple of FFG Spyderco’s but gave it up because I couldn’t seem to get the jaws to hold the blade without slipping; any thoughts?

    Thanks, Mike

    Best success for me has been to leave the film on. I had a couple of knives slip but then managed to hold them after making sure that the jaws were parallel before snugging up the top screw. If you loosen the top screw and slide the blade in between the jaws down by the bottom screw so that the free jaw is forced out to the thickness of the spine, you can turn the bottom screw until it meets the edge of the free jaw. Then go ahead and mount the knife as usual and snug up the top screw and then tighten the bottom screw.

    Another possibility is having too wide a strip of tape. The grip should be metal on metal on the spine of the knife and then the tape can act a filler for the empty space.

    Please let me know if that works for you.

    -Clay

    #229
    Michael Wagner
    Participant
    • Topics: 0
    • Replies: 4

    Hello Clay,

    After reading your post a light bulb went on and I did remember that the last time I tried to use the “mounting” tape the pieces I cut were quite wide and the tape covered an area from the tip of the jaw extending down toward the base that was too deep. To prove it to myself, I got the knife I was sharpening at the time (Manix 2) and clamped it in the jaws once again today but this time I used strips of tape that were quite skinny and this time it was much easier to compress them as the jaws tightened. In case anyone is wondering I was able to work around my wide tape error by wrapping the spine of the knife with a small piece of soft chamois. This also served to cushion the blade on both sides and help keep the blade in a symmetrical position.

    Thanks for the speedy reply and your tip on the width of the tape strip, worked great!

    Best regards,

    Mike

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