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Can I raise an burr on a thin blade at a 14 degree angle?

Recent Forums Main Forum Techniques and Sharpening Strategies Can I raise an burr on a thin blade at a 14 degree angle?

This topic contains 7 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Mickey 03/04/2018 at 6:16 am.

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  • #45288

    Expidia
    Participant
    • Topics: 39
    • Replies: 276

    On a similar vein to my recent angle adjustment posted question. . .

    I noticed at this 14 degree sharpening angle I found it hard to raise an burr when starting with just the right stone around 400 grit. scrubbing up and down strokes and followed by the normal front to back WE motions.  I could feel a slight burr forming on the left side edge, but very faint.  I did not want to re-profile the factory edge on my Wusthof set and I started with the 400 grit on the thin 3.5 inch paring knife.

    On my larger Wusthof kitchen knife which I initially raised somewhat of a burr at an angle of 19.5 which looked to me to be the factory angle.  I started with the 100 grit to repair the edge.

    But having to use the low angle adapter on this smaller knife it seems I can’t raise much of an initial burr with medium grit stones trying to repair the edge from my previous sharpening methods of freehand with a 1000 grit ceramic whetstone, a steel or the electric 3 stage chefs choice tri-edge sharpener.

    I didn’t want to go too far trying to raise a decent edge, before I asked this question here for fear of losing too much metal.

    Thx

    #45289

    Organic
    Participant
    • Topics: 17
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    I’ve read your post three times now and I still don’t think I understand what you’re asking. Every knife that you sharpen on the WE for the first time will need to be re-profiled to some extent. You can do your best to match the factory bevel angles to minimize the quantity of steel that is removed, but it will still need to be re-profiled to get the angles to match and to even out the width of the bevels. The 400 grit stone will do the job, but it will take a long time and you will be putting extra wear on that stone unnecessarily. In my opinion, the 100 grit stone is the correct choice when re-profiling a knife. It will get the job done much more rapidly. The 100 does put some deep scratches into the bevel, but these can be erased by spending a little extra time on the 200 and 400 grit stones. It is really helpful to examine the edge under magnification so that you can see what is happening.

    Once a knife has been sharpened on the WE, the 400 grit stone is a good starting point for future re-sharpening. You may even be able to start at the 600 or 800 grit depending on how damaged the blade is. I wouldn’t spend too much time worrying about how much steel you are removing. A single sharpening (even with re-profiling) does not remove very much steel when you are using a non-powered tool like the Wicked Edge. Powered sharpening tools like the Work Sharp Knife and Tool Sharpener can remove a lot of steel in a single sharpening if used improperly.

    Hopefully I have answered your question(s), but please clarify if I missed it.

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    #45290

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 58
    • Replies: 1855

    Expidia, from your post it seems you’re still working at 14º on one of the knives.  If I’m I understanding this correctly.  Did you determine using a sharpie and your digital angle device that the knife was actually profiled with a 14º per side bevel as the Wusthof Specifications said?  If the bevel edge is actually at a more obtuse angle than 14º, for instance 18º or 20º, all your grinding with the 400 grit stone at 14º would be down below the bevel edge, (ie the apex), and closer to the bevel shoulder.  You’ll have to remove a whole lot of metal before you ever reach the edge with this 14º profile.  That would be a tough chore with the 400 grit stones.

    Like Organic said, if you aren’t using a visual aid like a lighted magnified loupe or an electronic magnifier like a USB Microscope , then it’s really hard to know exactly where your working along the edge.  Without magnification you may be able to see your work with a bright LED flashlight shinning on the bevel edge while leaning in closely.

    With the Kitchen Wusthof when you were working at the wider 19.5º you were set at wide enough an angle that your grinding was actually right on or at the bevel edge.  This is why you were able to raise somewhat of an edge.  Because the angle was more correct, not because you were working with the 100 grit.  At this 19.5º angle you would have also raised the edge with the 400 grit, or even finer.

    I’d like to suggest to you that you chose one knife to work on.  Make a plan of what you’d like to do.  Share this plan with us, first, so we can help you with it.  If your plan needs some tweaking or adapting we can steer you in the right direction.  Then follow through with the plan.  This way your not all over the place jumping from knife to different knife with different inherent issues, angles and profiles.  I don’t suggest you start with the paring knife.  Because of it’s size it seems it’d be an easy one to work with but along with the small size and narrowness come clamping and angle issues requiring use of the Low Angle Adapter which introduces additional issues to the new user/sharpener.  Start with a knife you can clamp directly in the jaws.  The Wusthof Kitchen knife is a good choice.

    If you haven’t read the top post, “Finding the Sweet Spot” reading this will help you learn how to properly and practically clamp the knife your attempting to sharpen.  If the knife is positioned correctly it doesn’t really matter what angle you choose or grit you work with, the sharpening will be difficult to do and inefficient.

    Go slow.  Stay with one knife till you figure it out.  If you have problems, there’s usually someone here at the Forum who will get back with you before not too long. Good grinding!

     

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #45294

    Expidia
    Participant
    • Topics: 39
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    Yes, thank you.  I also have the 50/80 grit stones but figured these to be reserved for blades in bad shape.

    You have hit the points I had in question which was to have to start initially on every first sharpening on the WE by re-profiling even though some knives might look to have a decent factory edge already (which I’ve destroyed anyway with the electric chefs choice sharpener).

    From my various thread readings, I had thought I could start with the 400 grit to save metal.  But I see what you mean by how long I’d have to use them to re-profile and raise an burr as the 100’s are a lot quicker to do so.  I do have a microscope on its way now, but not until march 23rd at the earliest delivery date.  I do have several higher power magnifers to use in the meantime.

    Thx for that quick reply Organic.

     

    #45295

    Expidia
    Participant
    • Topics: 39
    • Replies: 276

    Thanks MarcH (and welcome to March).

    Ya, you are right on the money as to my not having a plan of attack.  Once I did the big kitchen knife I did not want to continue to do it yet a 3rd time as fearing I’d wind up with a tooth pick of a blade on a nice Wusthof handle :o)

    I could see the small paring knife was going to give me issues because the bottom screw on the low angle adapter sticks way out forcing me to only use a couple of inches on the lower part of each of the stones.  My choice might be use a shorter screw.  Or flip the LAA around for each side , but this defeats using the WE ability to sharpen both sides at the same time.

    I’m going to call around to a few local thrift shops to get some cheap blades to practice on.  I’m trying to work my way up after the Wusthof set to my Japanese Global Molybdenum/Vanadium stainless steel set, which I’ve also destroyed the edges using the chefs choice electric sharpener.  Those steel compounds sound like a decent grade of steel.  But I was know expert in steel grades when I bought this set 15 years ago.

    I’m saving my Benchmade folders for down the road until I’ve gained much more experience.  These folders are S90V steel and thats one of my reasons for the WE as diamonds are probably the best for that steel.  The factory edge I can see was put on by a brief belt grinding.  Its toothy and sharp, but being such a hard steel it should hold its edge for 6 months until my WE experience catches up. I can also send it back to BM for their free lifetime sharpening service if need be, but my goal is to put on my own mirror edge with a toothy micro bevel looking probably 6 months out.

    I

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    #45302

    Mickey
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
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    I stopped by Dollar General last week and bought a cheap set of 3 kitchen knives for $4 to practice on.

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    #45303

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 58
    • Replies: 1855

    Any knife you have an opportunity to sharpen gives you the opportunity to learn and refine your sharpening technique. Just realize inexpensive knives made with cheap steel often are a bad indicator of your sharpening results.  Some cheap knives just won’t get sharp like a similar knife made of better steel would.  I would still sharpen any knife available to broaden your experience, just remember to consider what you’re working with.  Don’t let it psych you out or fool you into believing you’re not doing it right.

    With the same reasoning in mind sometimes a $3 knife can surprise you and turn out to be a “real find”!

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #45308

    Mickey
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
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    I’m not expecting much in the way of results on the knife, but rather set up, technique, breaking in stones, and understanding what the heck I’m doing and why.

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