Average time and progression

[Daniel maloon]

Hey everyone.
How long do you spend on a customers blade and what is
Your typical process? Being repeatable, precise and time spent
Are all factors in being profitable and customer satisfaction.
I typically match the angles on knife and raise a Burr with the
400 stones then quickly progress up to 1000’s. I give it a quick strop
With crox on balsa with it all taking maybe 5-10min.
On a side note I’ve also gotten my hair whittling mirrored edges
down to 10-15 total. I continue to impress myself. Using a new progression
This is the quickest, cleanest and sharpest I’ve done for the time.
After doing this yesterday I was literally shaving long curly Q’s down some
fine hair. Those that have done that know what im talking about
Anyway just wanted to see what others doing this where averaging time and grit wise
Thanks

[Eamon Mc Gowan]

I typically match the angles on knife and raise a Burr with the
400 stones then quickly progress up to 1000’s. I give it a quick strop
With crox on balsa with it all taking maybe 5-10min.

Dan,
I curious as to your technique with the balsa? I have found with balsa when I use 14/10/5 that hair will “pop” when touched to the blade. (“Pop” is qualified here http://coticule.be/hanging-hair-test.html) Would you mind sharing what you are doing with the balsa? Not much is talked here about balsa? I would love more feedback?
Thank you,
Eamon

[Leo Barr]

I have to ask what blades we are we talking about if it is a good quality folder of sheath knife then I would definitely agree on stropping provided there is evidence that the user respects the knife but say for the average kitchen knife especially non Japanese or a folder that is used to scrape paint drips off something then I would say I go overboard and finish with 1200 grit but probable should in a commercial world stop at 600 . The angle of the bevel more than the finish is responsible for the perception of sharp . My biggest problem as with many on this site is that I am a perfectionist and I do this with love which translates to pride and I have two major criteria I ask my self would I pay for that and secondly I recall that people only remember you for your worst work therefore we are only as good as our poorest output not the best.
I also feel that this micro micro bevel I have talked about else where is something to consider whether it is done with one swipe of a steel on one side or the finishing grit on one side this will do two things ; it will remove the delicate burr and leave a fine micro bevel about the width of a hair at a strong angle say 40Ëšwhich will hardly effect the keenness of the edge but will make it much more durable .
Eamon when you have your new sharpness tester and perhaps Clay when you have done your preliminary ground work it would be interesting to see if the theory of the micro micro bevel on top of the cutting bevel holds good I suspect it will.

[Eamon Mc Gowan]

Leo,
I got to tell you I agree with just about all you wrote. I have not have a lot of experience working with micro bevels? So I can’t say? I am going to make a point of doing it more just for my own knowledge if anything?
I have been testing edges with friends here on the range. I like you tend to go totally overboard so I can glow when I hand back their knife. You know what? They like the 20* 600 grit finish the most!!! I have been trying all sorts of things? 800 grit with 14/10 balsa, 1000 with 5/3.5 balsa combos of roo, leather and on. For most of those they comes back saying it went dull fast..it was not as sharp as…bottom line and I am having to talk myself through it? Is they like the 600 14um strop and just a couple licks of strop at that. It seems to me anything after that is overkill for the average guy.
I keep thinking I’m not doing my job? When in fact I’m giving them everything they want?
Can anyone else relate to this?
Thank you,
Eamon

[Mikedoh]

LeoBarr quote

“I am a perfectionist and I do this with love which translates to pride and I have two major criteria I ask my self would I pay for that and secondly I recall that people only remember you for your worst work therefore we are only as good as our poorest output not the best.”

I won’t totally agree with you on only being remembered for one’s poorest work. Maybe most recent work tempered by past work. Initial poor work will definitely be remembered. Inconsistent work will be remembered. Consistent striving for the best, and for how the customer feels about the work will be remembered.

I am not basing this on knives, but more on customer service and how one is perceived. I washed windows for many years. Our company established itself on quality results, making things right, and concern for our customers. If there is a bad spot on a window, that is where the eye is drawn.

Long story short, our customers appreciated our care, quality, and concern for our work, their homes, and their comfort and satisfaction with us being in their homes. Problems , when taken care of with the customer’s satisfaction in mind, established our concern for “making things right”. No, not everyone can be pleased. Overall, our customers were very loyal, giving and defended us against those who could never be pleased.

I’m sure things are a bit different in knife sharpening, but it is still a customer service type of industry.

Just one person’s opinion, but establishing a perception of care, goes a long way.

[Daniel maloon]

hey Eamon
well actually it isn’t balsa but basswood. I haven’t tried a HHT on a standard sharpened blade like this yet but doubt it pops hairs. when i do a hair splitting edge the minimum for me to be satisfied is the HHT2. Usually its 3’s and 4’s with occasionally 5’s on spots of the blade but im happy with it just splitting the hair. i have the basswood mounted on my old leather strop handles and move them in a degree or two when i strop. i tend to be heavy handed some times which is why i went with that over balsa. I really like the feedback the wood gives and it works for me right now.

[Eamon Mc Gowan]

hey Eamon
well actually it isn’t balsa but basswood. I haven’t tried a HHT on a standard sharpened blade like this yet but doubt it pops hairs. when i do a hair splitting edge the minimum for me to be satisfied is the HHT2. Usually its 3’s and 4’s with occasionally 5’s on spots of the blade but im happy with it just splitting the hair. i have the basswood mounted on my old leather strop handles and move them in a degree or two when i strop. i tend to be heavy handed some times which is why i went with that over balsa. I really like the feedback the wood gives and it works for me right now.

Interesting! I never thought of regular wood? :whistle: I have been so by the book, figuring Clay has done a ton of testing? I am ready to break out though 😆 Thanks for the feedback! I’m always so curious as to what others are doing? One of the reasons I love this site. There are so many helpful people here. 😉

[Daniel maloon]

Im sure he has I just haven’t found anything about it and wanted to try something new.
I went to the craft store and they had both balsa and bass but the balsa seemed to compress easily.
Was originally going to get kangaroo leather but the leather store out here’s stopped carrying it so maybe ill
Try pig next. I don’t know. Just trying new stuff ha

[Kent]

I have only matched a few angles. Mostly I have reset the angles, in belief that the will be happy with the end result and when they need it touched up I can easily set the angle and save time on touch up making the customer even happier. I have been setting most things at 20deg per side witht the angle cube.

I go from 100, 200, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1600. I stop there and if they want it stropped I charge a little extra. Most customers will never benefit from it. Most ppl dont own a knife worth more than $20.

Time wise I spend around 8 to 12 minutes on a average blade. Cheaper chinese knife once I get the angle set I dont spend a lot of time progressing up to the ceramics.

[Jed Bowen]

I am along the lines with Limpy. I am at 5-8 min per knife. I charge $5 for knives under 6″, $8 for 6″-10″ and $10 for 10″-14″. My progression is the same for all my farmers market and kitchen knives. I leave my arms set out at 25°, use my key just to level the knife as I eyeball the fwd and aft adjustments, hit the edge with a marker. Then I reprofile at 50-80 grit this is where most time is spent then I clean up those scratches with the 100 grit and progress up through the 600 grit. Hit it a few strokes with the coarse then fine ceramics and the 10 stroke each side with the 1micron strop. Clean it with with alcohol put a drop or 2 of CLP on the folders and get paid. This turns out a sharper knife than any of my customers have ever had and the edge has a bit of a polish to it so they can see my work. Then I get paid.

I have not had a complaint about the quality or sharpness from hundreds of knives sharpened that way and I have lots of people stop back and thank me for a wonderful job. The only complaint I had was a 3 blade old timer I did for a poor older gentleman who bitched about taking too long sharpening the 3 blades for $5. Said “it shouldn’t take that long costing that much” so I thanked him and told him to have a great day. I do live in North Georgia in a town that is not too rich so my prices are a bit lower than some others, but cost of living is not too bad and it is $2 to set up at my farmers market. I needed to get started, get the experience, and work on my speed and grit progression and get my face seen and be there every Saturday.

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