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Angle cube variability/inconsistency and jumpiness

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Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 32 total)
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  • #49895
    phillyjudge
    Participant
    • Topics: 19
    • Replies: 55

    I have  2 cubes. The DXL360s and the Accuremote. The 360s is maddening because of the time it takes to “settle” and is so jumpy that I can get 18* on one side, then 3 minutes later it’s 18.08, then 18.1 etc. believe me, I am holding it on the same spot of the blade, same finger pressure against the blade and using the same side of the stone to mount the unit. PLUS, there is about .25* variance between the 2 gauges. Yes, I understand it’ s all relative if I use one or the other, but….

    Do you guys have the issues with the 360s? I mean  the 358, 359, 357, 362, 364, 360? The thing counts on its own on a flat vibration free surface!!

    • This topic was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by phillyjudge.
    #49898
    airscapes
    Participant
    • Topics: 13
    • Replies: 286

    I assume this does the same thing with fresh batteries?

    #49899
    phillyjudge
    Participant
    • Topics: 19
    • Replies: 55

    yes, fresh batts in the Accuremote, and decent charge on the 360s

    #49900
    Pinkfloyd
    Participant
    • Topics: 22
    • Replies: 205

    I have the DXL360 with .02 deg accuracy (not the S model) it does take awhile to settle but not an extreme amount of time. It is a little slow to zero, but after that it is steady. I don’t hold the gauge or the stones when i measure, i just set the stones on the knife, make an adjustment then pull stone away from knife and set back on knife to check for repeatability. The ones that are a pain for me are the ceramics and the DLF’s. Because they are not magnetic and you have to hold against the DLF, the knife. Wish WE could put a metal strip that would hold the angle gauges.

    4 users thanked author for this post.
    #49902
    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 61
    • Replies: 2164

    First thing,  I’d restore the DXL360S to the factory default.  Then I’d re-inigialize/re-calibrate it following the step by step procedure precisely.  I found myself repeating it several times till I was confident in my calibrating process.

    Then, try to use a locked stone stop to hold the handle up at the height on the guide rod so it leans on the knife edge in the same position you would hand hold it, with the  DXL360s magnetically attached on the outside stone.  This eliminates any error you may be introducing while trying to hold the stone in a stable position against the knife edge with the cube attached, on it and continuously making readings.  Remember the DXL360s reads on 3 axes and to +/-0.01º, so it extremely sensitive to motion however slight.

    Non-magnetic mediums are more than challenging.  These mediums, DLFs and Strops are used towards the latter steps in the sharpening progression after the important profiling and bevel angle work has been accomplished.  I set the DLFs only the first time using the 1500 grit/glass combo platen with the magnetic stone.  The strops are used at a lowered angle by 1.5 to 2º so there is leadway and precision isn’t as important.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by MarcH.
    3 users thanked author for this post.
    #49907
    phillyjudge
    Participant
    • Topics: 19
    • Replies: 55

     

     

    Thank you. You guys are the best.

     

    The recalibration instructions are more confusing than an IKEA cabinet. Any tips?

     

    What is a DLF?

     

    Where do you get the locking stops?

    #49908
    Pinkfloyd
    Participant
    • Topics: 22
    • Replies: 205

    Thank you. You guys are the best. The recalibration instructions are more confusing than an IKEA cabinet. Any tips? What is a DLF? Where do you get the locking stops?

    DLF= Diamond Lapping Films

    As a cheap stone position holder for angle measurements you could use these, from any office supply store

     

    Attachments:
    #49910
    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 61
    • Replies: 2164

    I believe I had viewed a YouTube video with the calibration procedure.  Search “dxl360s calibration”.  The instructions are indeed cofusing to read in the manual.  I did it a few times to figure it out.  After reading the instructions and trying it a few times you’ll get the understanding of the stepwise procedure.  Each step calibrates a different axis.

    For stone stops, like Pinkfloyd suggested, you can use anything you can put on the rod that will stay put will work.  Try a rubber band. I used faucet replacement washers out of a faucet repair kit from Home Depot.  I had to drill out the center so it was large enough to slide over the guide rod but still tight enough to stay in place.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

    #49911
    phillyjudge
    Participant
    • Topics: 19
    • Replies: 55

    Got it. Thanks fellas!!

     

    I am starting to love this device.  After screwing up a Dozier, two Chris Reeves, and others that I  sent away for “real sharpening” to Josh, I  just did 2 Hinderers and they came out beautifully!!!… I think I’ve stepped up my game and now I’m ready to keep fine-tuning it. Thank you again.

     

    Set up is everything.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #49912
    phillyjudge
    Participant
    • Topics: 19
    • Replies: 55

    PS. I have done a gazillion kitchen knives and a bunch of other folders and fixed blades, but after the Hinderers, I am at a new level now.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #49913
    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 61
    • Replies: 2164

    I was wrong, no YouTube video demonstrating the Calibration procedure.

    This is the best I can offer:  http://spot-on.net/images/DXL360S%20v2-Dual%20Axis%20Digital%20Protractors.pdf

    The calibration procedure is at the end of the manual starting on page 16 and ending on 19. (There are more instructions after page 19 for more advanced functions).  Look at the pictures before starting to understand how you will be positioning the cube at the start of a step, then rotating the cube in that particular step.  In some of the movements or rotations, the cube is kept in contact, sitting on a flat surface or tabletop.  In other steps you actual lift the cube to rotate it’s axis. Each step you start in one position then move, rotate or flip the cube during the step. The manual has a before and after picture, for each step, with a middle diagram or picture to show the direction of movement, to make it clear how you will be moving the device.  The total sequence of steps one after the other is necessary to calibrate the device for our uses.

    I hope this explanation helps.  Before starting the calibration I suggest you do the factory reset first.

     

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by MarcH.
    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #49918
    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 37
    • Replies: 1952

    I recently did a calibration on my 360s and it’s been very repeatable since.  There are a couple of caveats associated with any of these digital protractors.  Depending on temperature, the 360s can have accuracies of as much as +/- 0.05 degrees, while the resolution is still at 0.01 degrees.

    I did learn an important lesson while working with any of these devices.  If you let them simply rest against some other part, the display is likely to bounce around.  I think this is caused by the sensitive circuits picking up on extremely small disturbances or vibration.  I found that if I held them in position by applying a constant pressure against them, these spurious vibrations are dampened out.  This has a profound effect on the device, causing it to zero in on the true angle very quickly.

    In practice, what I do is to rest the stone with the angle cube attached to it against the edge being sharpened.  I then grasp the handle with my off-side hand, reaching around the vise with my thumb and index finger.  I pull on the bottom of the handle and hold that position while the angle cube settles down.  Notes:  I “always” take my measurements with the stone resting  in a position aligned with the center of the vise.  I then make any changes to the micro-adjust for that side and take a next measurement.  If the display shows a change which is different from what I’m expecting (I know that a change of 3 divisions on my micro-adjusts should result in about 0.09 degrees) I will lift the stone of of the edge briefly and then return it to its position, hold it snugly against the edge until the new number settles down.

    4 users thanked author for this post.
    #49922
    NotSharpEnuff
    Participant
    • Topics: 3
    • Replies: 102

    @Pinkfloyd re: metal strip

    I ended up making my own as I use the Chosera stones regularly.  Looking at the third pic you’ll notice that the bend “loops up” some and is bent inward toward the stone face.  This gives me some spring action that holds the strip tight against the face.  Straight 90 degree bends did not work as well as the loop at the top.  I also have to set the angle cube in the middle of the stone as the top part is not flush with the stone face.

    It’s not perfect but is much better and faster than trying to hold the cube and adjust the angle rods.

    Ed K.

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    3 users thanked author for this post.
    #49927
    phillyjudge
    Participant
    • Topics: 19
    • Replies: 55

     

    TC: that is EXACTLY what I do, but repeatability even after a minute or two is still elusive: I will dial it to 18* on the Left, do the Right, and when I check left again, the 360s could show 17.75* or 18.3*

     

     

    “In practice, what I do is to rest the stone with the angle cube attached to it against the edge being sharpened.  I then grasp the handle with my off-side hand, reaching around the vise with my thumb and index finger.  I pull on the bottom of the handle and hold that position while the angle cube settles down.  Notes:  I “always” take my measurements with the stone resting  in a position aligned with the center of the vise.  I then make any changes to the micro-adjust for that side and take a next measurement.  If the display shows a change which is different from what I’m expecting (I know that a change of 3 divisions on my micro-adjusts should result in about 0.09 degrees) I will lift the stone of of the edge briefly and then return it to its position, hold it snugly against the edge until the new number settles down.”

    #49928
    airscapes
    Participant
    • Topics: 13
    • Replies: 286

    @Pinkfloyd re: metal strip I ended up making my own as I use the Chosera stones regularly. Looking at the third pic you’ll notice that the bend “loops up” some and is bent inward toward the stone face. This gives me some spring action that holds the strip tight against the face. Straight 90 degree bends did not work as well as the loop at the top. I also have to set the angle cube in the middle of the stone as the top part is not flush with the stone face. It’s not perfect but is much better and faster than trying to hold the cube and adjust the angle rods. Ed K.

    Ed, what did you use for the metal strip, I would like to fabricate something similar for the 1500 stone with the glass plate.  Unfortunately I don’t have access to a Break to produce a nice flat edge.. Guess I will go roam HD and see if I can find something to use off label..

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by airscapes.
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