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2000x Microscope

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  • #3735
    wickededge
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 123
    • Replies: 2936

    The new scope came in Wednesday and I’d hoped to kick off this category with some great hi-res pics, but then was out sick on Thursday and wrapped up in meetings on Friday so I didn’t get a really good chance to play with it. I also still need to get a NIST traceable micro-ruler to calibrate it. If anyone knows of one for under $1200, I’d love to hear about it. Even without calibration though, I should be able to start posting some of the pics. At first glance, it looks pretty exciting. I can see the tiniest of scratches from our micro-abrasives really clearly, so with some luck and work, we should be able to learn a whole lot about all the stones and strops.

    -Clay

    #3736
    cbwx34
    Participant
    • Topics: 57
    • Replies: 1505

    AWESOME!!!!!

    cbw

    #3739
    Phil Pasteur
    Participant
    • Topics: 10
    • Replies: 943

    Yes awesome. I am real anxious to start seeing some evidence of what we are actually doing at the sub micron level.

    Phil

    #3745
    Robert Nash
    Participant
    • Topics: 5
    • Replies: 164

    Can’t wait to see it in action! Thanks for making the investment Clay

    #3774
    Anthony Yan
    Participant
    • Topics: 4
    • Replies: 96

    The new scope came in Wednesday and I’d hoped to kick off this category with some great hi-res pics, but then was out sick on Thursday and wrapped up in meetings on Friday so I didn’t get a really good chance to play with it. I also still need to get a NIST traceable micro-ruler to calibrate it. If anyone knows of one for under $1200, I’d love to hear about it. Even without calibration though, I should be able to start posting some of the pics. At first glance, it looks pretty exciting. I can see the tiniest of scratches from our micro-abrasives really clearly, so with some luck and work, we should be able to learn a whole lot about all the stones and strops.

    Hi Clay,

    I searched around and found a NIST-traceable stage micrometer for about $500, but I’m not sure it is good enough; I think it only goes down to 0.1mm (100 microns).

    “Reticle Calibration Stage Micrometer, NIST traceable NT59-281 $495.00”
    http://www.edmundoptics.com/microscopy/reticles-stage-micrometers/reticle-calibration-stage-micrometer/2826

    Edmund Optics also has many other calibration targets, so you might also look around at:
    http://www.edmundoptics.com/testing-targets/test-targets/image-analysis-test-targets/
    http://www.edmundoptics.com/microscopy/reticles-stage-micrometers/

    I also found this company that sells stage micrometers with NIST-traceable certificates. It seems if you buy the stage-micrometer from them, they lower the price for NIST-traceable calibration.
    http://www.aig-imaging.com/NIST-Traceable-Calibration.html
    http://www.aig-imaging.com/Stage-Micrometer-Scales.html

    Other places I looked at had fancier stage micrometers, but were very expensive ($1200+ for NIST-traceable):
    http://www.emsdiasum.com/microscopy/products/magnifier/stage.aspx
    http://www.tedpella.com/calibrat_html/calib.htm

    Sincerely,
    –Lagrangian

    P.S. Another possibility is to get a mechanical microscope stage with micrometers. That is, it is a stage that can move in the X, or X-and-Y directions where each direction is literally moved by a micrometer-head. Presumably, if the micrometer-heads are NIST certified, then the microscope stage is very accurate. It may be expensive, so don’t know if it would cost less. And I don’t know if they actually are avaiable as NIST-traceable.
    http://www.edmundoptics.com/microscopy/microscopy-mechanics/linear-positioning-stages/30mm-single-axis-crossed-roller-translation-stages/3216

    #3777
    BassLake Dan
    Participant
    • Topics: 11
    • Replies: 110

    … also still need to get a NIST traceable micro-ruler to calibrate it…..

    I have been watching this thread for a while. Just curious why do you feel that you need a traceable standard? That will just add tremendous cost, but I do not see any benifit for you / us? Tell me exactly what you are trying to accomplish here, and I will make an inquiry with a friend who is in the optics measuring business (adcole inc.) as I think there are several work arounds for this if you can take a reference that is not “traceable”

    #3778
    BassLake Dan
    Participant
    • Topics: 11
    • Replies: 110

    ..

    P.S. Another possibility is to get a mechanical microscope stage with micrometers. That is, it is a stage that can move in the X, or X-and-Y directions where each direction…etc

    Yes I agree with Anthony here. In fact you are going to need this to handle even using you new device, as you certainly can not span and observe any item in such a magnified field of view without assistance from an axis controller of some sort.

    #3819
    Christopher Staples
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 11

    http://www.anago.co.nz/

    unsure what they use but they test our knifes @ work

    #4167
    wickededge
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 123
    • Replies: 2936

    Starting to have some fun with the new scope 🙂 The stage micrometer came in and I’ve calibrated it at 800x. I had to send the 100x objective lens back as it was defective, so I can’t get up to 2000x yet… So far, the images I’m getting at 800x are great and I’m learning a lot in a short amount of time. I can’t wait to share what I’m learning with you guys, just need more hours in the day!

    -Clay

    #4173
    Anthony Yan
    Participant
    • Topics: 4
    • Replies: 96

    Hi Clay,

    Sounds exciting! 🙂
    I’m curious… which stage micrometer did you end up getting?

    Sincerely,
    –Lagrangian

    #4175
    BassLake Dan
    Participant
    • Topics: 11
    • Replies: 110

    Hi Clay,

    Sounds exciting! 🙂
    I’m curious… which stage micrometer did you end up getting?

    Sincerely,
    –Lagrangian

    hey Anthony, help me out here. .. I will differ here to what you tell me: I seem to recall, from many many years past when sleeping through one my physics classes that there was some professor droning on about nanometers, and the wavelength of (human) visiable light and 1/2 a micron and, well anyway,, 2000X? optical?? I am a bit lost here…

    #4182
    wickededge
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 123
    • Replies: 2936

    Hey Lagrangian,

    I ended up with one from Ted Pella, Inc. It is: “Micrometer Scale-Reflected Light 2mm in .01mm divisions” It’s probably not ready for NASA, but I think it is good enough for the kind of work I’m doing. The microscope stage has built in axis control with pretty fine adjustments, so I didn’t need that feature – I can easily scroll along the length of the blade or from shoulder to edge which is good enough for me. Next I need to design and build a stage that will hold my blades so I can take the samples in and out quickly without a lot of fiddling.

    -Clay

    Hi Clay,

    Sounds exciting! 🙂
    I’m curious… which stage micrometer did you end up getting?

    Sincerely,
    –Lagrangian

    -Clay

    #4194
    Anthony Yan
    Participant
    • Topics: 4
    • Replies: 96

    Hi Clay:

    Thanks! 🙂

    Hi BassLakeDan:

    For a variety of reasons, visible wavelength is often discussed in terms of nanometers, and sometimes in angstroms. But it’s just all unit conversions by factors of ten.

    Visible light is approximately in the range of 0.4 to 0.7 microns (okay, if you are really picky, the 0.38 to 0.74 microns). If you want, that’s 400 to 700 nanometers, or 4000 to 7000 angstroms.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_light

    Optical microscopes use visible light to image stuff, so they’re pretty good until you start getting down to sub-wavelength features. Below about half a wavelength, you will probably not see anything. Current high-end optical microscopes have a resolution of about 0.2 microns. You can get better than this optically, but doing so requires extremely fancy and high-tech methods. So it’s only in a research lab that you would be likely to see an optical microscope with better than 0.2 micron resolution.

    A ton of really good microscope information can be found here, on Nikon’s microscope web page:
    http://microscopyu.com/

    To get to higher resolutions, one can use non-optical methods, such as using light outside of the visibel spectrum, or things like electron-microscopes, atomic-force microscopes, and scanning-tunnelling-electron micrscopes.

    Sincerely,
    –Lagrangian

    P.S. btw, as a knife and sharpening enthusiast, I’m conceptually anchored at 0.5 microns because the sharpness of a modern razor is about 0.4 microns (according to Prof. John D. Verhoeven), and visible light is around 0.4 to 0.7 microns. So whenever I think about knife edges, microscope pictures, and the size of abrasive particles, I’m thinking in terms of 0.5 microns. This is why I think it’s cool that Clay got a stage micrometer… because in any photos he shows, we will be able to have some idea of the width of scratches in comparison to edge sharpness and abrasive grits.

    P.P.S. I’ve only been a knife enthusiast for about a year, but over that time I’ve collected a short list of “length-scales” related to knives. It is kind of like a time-line, but instead of time, the axis is length (microns). Here’s a partial list:

    50-100 microns = Approximate diameter of human hair (varies hugely; this is only part of the range)
    25.4 microns = 0.001 inches (1 mil). Standard resolution for an imperial caliper
    2.54 microns = 0.0001 inches (0.1 mil). Standard resolution for an imperial micrometer.
    0.36-0.74 microns = Wavelength of visible light
    0.4 microns = Sharpness of a modern razor blade.
    0.2 microns = resolution limit of optical microscopes
    0.05 microns = Sharpness of diamond coated razors.
    0.005 microns = Sharpness of a diamond microtome knife.
    0.003 microns = Sharpness of concoidally fractured obsidian.
    0.00034 microns = van der Waals diameter of a carbon atom.

    Atomic-force microscopes (AFM) and scanning-tunneling-electron-microscopes (STEM) use needles which are atomically sharp; they literally have a single atom at the tip.

    Sources:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair#Description
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_light
    http://www-archive.mse.iastate.edu/fileadmin/www.mse.iastate.edu/static/files/verhoeven/KnifeShExps.pdf
    http://microscopyu.com/articles/optics/index.html
    http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/25988/
    http://www.tedpella.com/diamond_html/diamondk.htm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsidian
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Waals_radius

    P.P.P.S. If you are interested in the conversion between grit numbers and microns, then have a look at Komitadjie’s Grand Unified Grit Chart. Here are some plots by Mr. Wizard using the data that Komitadjie has compiled:
    http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?post/2387907/

    #4199
    BassLake Dan
    Participant
    • Topics: 11
    • Replies: 110

    …btw, as a knife and sharpening enthusiast, I’m conceptually anchored at 0.5 microns ..and visible light is around 0.4 to 0.7 microns. ..I’m thinking in terms of 0.5 microns. … because in any photos he shows, ..

    thanks Anthony for all the great info.. i will wait to see Clay photos.. I am sort of a “proof of the pudding is in the tasting” type so.. if Clay can bring this off then he probably can get ‘on the side’ contract work for various labs that need those persons skilled in the use of scopes at these ranges. What he is up to is no simple task, and the hurdles to be overcome should not be under estimated. But, of course I want to see the results as much as anyone, so I wish all 100% success on the project !!!

    #4205
    Anthony Yan
    Participant
    • Topics: 4
    • Replies: 96

    I just saw this post from Magnaminous_G on BladeForums.com:
    http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/975577-This-might-interest-serious-sharpeners-free-SEM-imaging

    This might interest serious sharpeners – free SEM imaging
    It looks like ASPEX is now offering free SEM imagery of whatever you send to them (limit of 2 samples). It might be really cool to see a very refined edge under a SEM.
    http://www.aspexcorp.com/Resources/SendUsYourSample.aspx%5B/quote%5D

    If they are able to take SEM pictures looking directly into the edge (the same as Prof. John D. Verhoeven), then they may be able to measure the actual sharpness of your knife edge. That would be amazingly cool… With modern ultra-fine abrasives, do you think your edge is sharper than 0.4 microns? Now you can find out!
    http://www-archive.mse.iastate.edu/fileadmin/www.mse.iastate.edu/static/files/verhoeven/KnifeShExps.pdf

    Sincerely,
    –Lagrangian

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