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Kitchen knives microbevel

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  • 10/03/2015 at 6:57 pm #29115
    Alan
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    • Topics: 15
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    Hey guys. I did a couple of searches, but didn’t find what I’m looking for

    This weekend I want to sharpen my kitchen knives, mostly Victorinox and some old Chicago Cutlery. I already sharpened one knife, a large Victorinox chef’s knife. I didn’t use a marker to determine bevel, as I just want to make them all the same angle, reprofile if necessary.

    Knowing my WEPS was coming, I’ve purposely let my knives get very dull over the past months. This morning I sharpened the chef knife to 15 degrees per side, starting with 100/200 stones, then 400.600, finally 800.1000. Then microbevel at 20 degrees per side with 1000 stone. Super sharp! Wow!!

    My question. Is there an optimal spread between the main bevel and the microbevel for kitchen knives? The spread I used was 5 degrees (20-15). I only used this as I watched Clay’s video of him sharping his ZT 0770, and those are the numbers that he used, 15 and 20.

    In other youtube videos, for instance, I’ve seen folks use for instance 21 degrees main bevel, with an 18 degree microbevel, which is a 3 degree spread (21-18).

    Is there an optimal main bevel vrs microbevel spread for kitchen knives? Hope this makes sense.

    Thank you guys in advance.

    -Alan

    Alan

    10/03/2015 at 11:57 pm #29116
    Geocyclist
    Participant
    • Topics: 25
    • Replies: 524

    Good question, or good two questions?

    What do you mean by optimal? How long the edge stays sharp, how sharp you can get it?

    The optimal secondary bevel might be the same as the optimal bevel when only using a primary bevel. I.e. it depends on your steel and how you use it.

    Is there a rule or optimal setting that the secondary bevel should be “X” degrees more than the primary?

    10/04/2015 at 12:25 am #29117
    Alan
    Participant
    • Topics: 15
    • Replies: 206

    Is there a rule or optimal setting that the secondary bevel should be “X” degrees more than the primary?

    Yes, this is pretty much my question. Maybe not a rule, but a “rule of thumb”? I guess there are so many variables that it’s probably just hard to say…

    Alan

    10/04/2015 at 2:48 pm #29122
    Mark76
    Participant
    • Topics: 179
    • Replies: 2760

    I think Geo is right. Optimal for what? And there are a lot of parameters in play.

    I look at it like this. I usually want to sharpen my Japanese knives at a pretty acute angle, say 14 degrees. This makes them glide through food easily. Most J-knives are hard, so they won’t roll easily even at such an angle. But they may chip easily, due to their hardness, heat treatment and/or steel structure. For example, my favorite gyuto, a Suisin Inox honyaki, is made of 19C27 steel, which has quite large carbides. I sharpened this at a 14 degree angle. But that is a bit steep with such carbides (can cause nasty chips), so I put an 18 degree micro-bevel on it. That makes it very stable.

    So what I’m trying to say:
    – pick an angle for the main bevel you like
    – if the edge is stable, you’re fine
    – otherwise you can try to put a microbevel on it

    You’ll have to experiment a bit to find the optimal angle for the microbevel. You goal is a more stable edge. On the other hand you don’t want to make the angle difference between the main bevel and the microbevel too large, ’cause then it will impact cutting performance.

    In practice I usually end up with a microbevel that’s 3-6 degrees less acute than the main bevel.

    Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

    10/04/2015 at 10:07 pm #29124
    Alan
    Participant
    • Topics: 15
    • Replies: 206

    I think Geo is right. Optimal for what? And there are a lot of parameters in play.

    I look at it like this. I usually want to sharpen my Japanese knives at a pretty acute angle, say 14 degrees. This makes them glide through food easily. Most J-knives are hard, so they won’t roll easily even at such an angle. But they may chip easily, due to their hardness, heat treatment and/or steel structure. For example, my favorite gyuto, a Suisin Inox honyaki, is made of 19C27 steel, which has quite large carbides. I sharpened this at a 14 degree angle. But that is a bit steep with such carbides (can cause nasty chips), so I put an 18 degree micro-bevel on it. That makes it very stable.

    So what I’m trying to say:
    – pick an angle for the main bevel you like
    – if the edge is stable, you’re fine
    – otherwise you can try to put a microbevel on it

    You’ll have to experiment a bit to find the optimal angle for the microbevel. You goal is a more stable edge. On the other hand you don’t want to make the angle difference between the main bevel and the microbevel too large, ’cause then it will impact cutting performance.

    In practice I usually end up with a microbevel that’s 3-6 degrees less acute than the main bevel.

    Mark that is about the best answer I could have imagined to receive.. Makes perfect sense. 1+karma to you. Thank you! 😉
    I love to learn new things, and there is so much to know about knives and sharpening them!

    Alan

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