How much is enough
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- This topic has 12 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 12/05/2011 at 12:03 pm by
Don Llewellyn.
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08/30/2011 at 11:13 pm #214
I read or saw somewhere where Clay said that you can actually roll an edge by over stropping or using too much pressure.
I got to thinking (could be dangerous) maybe you could strop at 1 degree less than the knife was sharpened at and prevent dulling of the edge. Any thoughts about this. Maybe the guys that already have there WE units could comment on this.
About how many strokes with the strop does it take to polish the edge?Thanks
Lucky08/30/2011 at 11:37 pm #216Hi again Lucky
I can only speak for myself, but I have found that I don’t count strokes, I just do what I think is right and check the edge as I go along until I have it the way I want. As I said in my other response to you, I do things pretty intuitively. I find I listen to the sounds of the paddles and strops as they do their work…over time you can tell when you are getting results or when you are not and when you have done enough. Works for me.Cheers
Leo09/01/2011 at 11:31 pm #243Just a further note regarding stropping…I strop my knives at the end of each day of use with a two-sided hand-strop(wood and leather) loaded with Green compound on one side and White compound on the other. I have to say that after stropping for a year,I now know when the strop is working because I can hear that it is. Listening attentaively IMO is important whether it is working with the diamond paddles/Chosera stones on the WEPS or stropping with leather or balsa.
The amount of pressure being used, both when stropping by hand or with the strops on the WEPS, is critical. I judge the pressure by holding the knife lightly with my fingers and brushing it over the loaded leather with a force roughly equal to the weight of the knife plus a bit. On the WEPS I lightly brush the blade with the paddles almost like I was wiping dust from the edge.
As I said I am very intuitive in my sharpening and I have learned a lot by listening and feeling along with reading the advice of others who are experts in the field of sharpening. Maybe practicing Zen for the last 30 years has been a help. LOL! The Zen of Sharpening! Sounds like a good title for a book Clay!Cheers
Leo09/01/2011 at 11:58 pm #245Leo summed it up from my perspective, I do a lot of hand stropping too (I just like it).
I imagine on the wicked edge it would be really hard to over strop (with the controlled angle). I would think your hands would fall off before you actually rolled and edge. My guess is that hand stropping on green might make rolling an edge more of a possibility.
I thinks it’s going to also be highly dependent on the steel. I find that I have to strop the living crud out of S90V or ZDP-189 to get a mirror like polish, while VG-10 and CTS-XHP seem to strop right up.
09/02/2011 at 12:00 pm #261I imagine on the wicked edge it would be really hard to over strop (with the controlled angle). I would think your hands would fall off before you actually rolled and edge. My guess is that hand stropping on green might make rolling an edge more of a possibility.
I thinks it’s going to also be highly dependent on the steel. I find that I have to strop the living crud out of S90V or ZDP-189 to get a mirror like polish, while VG-10 and CTS-XHP seem to strop right up.[/quote]
You are right to some extent, some steels are harder to strop well than others e.g. 3G Powder Steel
Most of my knives are made from fine carbon steels like D2,A2 and 1095…these strop beautifully and one can create a fine mirror polish as well as a ruthlessly sharp edge like this ESEE-6 that Clay just worked on in an experiment he was doing comparing Chosera and Shapton stones on the WEPSOr this one the ESEE-4 also of 1095 steel…same experiment
This blade is of 1095 steel…great stuff to strop or sharpen on the WEPS.
Leo
09/03/2011 at 12:48 am #268Excellent info so far! B)
IMO, It’s super easy to roll an edge with stropping, and it’s mainly due to pressure. As the edge becomes more refined, it becomes thinner, much like peeling away the layers of an onion. The edge of the edge is fragile and is easily prone to being flexed when lateral forces are applied, even if it should readily spring back into position.
Geometry plays a role in the strength of the edge, but ultimately, you still want the edge to be thin enough to cut effortlessly.
As mentioned previously, the steel’s qualities will also play a role in how much pressure an edge can take before becoming fatigued or rolled.
To add one more thing, by the time you get the the strops on the WEPS, you should have one seriously well defined and sharpened edge, so you won’t need to add much pressure at all – especially if you take the time at the finer WEPS stones/plates (or Choseras and Shaptons 😉
09/03/2011 at 1:33 am #273How true Tom. That is why I use the term brush with the strops…a light brushing stroke is all you need after progressing through all the stones on the WEPS. That edge is so well defined only light whispers of leather against the steel are required to pop that edge to the max.
Leo
Excellent info so far! B)
IMO, It’s super easy to roll an edge with stropping, and it’s mainly due to pressure. As the edge becomes more refined, it becomes thinner, much like peeling away the layers of an onion. The edge of the edge is fragile and is easily prone to being flexed when lateral forces are applied, even if it should readily spring back into position.
Geometry plays a role in the strength of the edge, but ultimately, you still want the edge to be thin enough to cut effortlessly.
As mentioned previously, the steel’s qualities will also play a role in how much pressure an edge can take before becoming fatigued or rolled.
To add one more thing, by the time you get the the strops on the WEPS, you should have one seriously well defined and sharpened edge, so you won’t need to add much pressure at all – especially if you take the time at the finer WEPS stones/plates (or Choseras and Shaptons 😉
09/03/2011 at 3:37 am #278Hi again Lucky
I can only speak for myself, but I have found that I don’t count strokes…I need to stop counting strokes, but I seem to be stuck in it on the WEPS. Once I hit a cadence, for me its like doing CPR (1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and…) :cheer:
I count on one side only.
12/05/2011 at 8:23 am #1062After reading a bit here, one of the points made was listening to the sound the strop makes to know if it’s working or needs reloaded.
But I don’t know what it should sound like. Should it always be slippery with compound? Should it seem dry and squeek like super-clean glass? Does it sound like a whisper?
Enquiring minds want to know…12/05/2011 at 9:01 am #1063After using them for a while, I would say the strops only get good when they are not slippery at all.
Let them get dry, crusty and black. Use them far, far longer than you think you should, and then they are starting to get good in my experience.
I know it sounds counterintuitive, but give it a try.
As for sound – I would not go by it at all – I have no idea what they should “sound like”.
12/05/2011 at 9:03 am #1064Hmm! How shall I describe it…dry, slightly gritty ssshhhh sound,I don’t know if I can define it any better than that. It is, to my ears anyway,clear as a bell when you get it just right. No. not slippery! This is most clear when stropping on a leather/wooden paddle, not so much on the WEPS strops.
I am talking here about stropping with green,gold,red or black compound. Diamond paste or spray does not have a distinctive sound to my half-deaf ears.
Clear as mud eh!Leo
12/05/2011 at 11:57 am #1068I would describe it like a hiss of a snake. When the strops are wet with diamond paste, you dont get much stropping because the strops are kind of “ice skating” on the blade. Let the paste soak in for a good while, work it in real good, and for the first few knives, after a few strokes, clean the paste that leaks off the strop off of the blade, until the strops leave no more paste on the blade. NOW you will be getting results, as the diamond paste impregnated in the leather is sliding on the metal, abrading it, and not the leather sliding on a protective layer of paste. You should see no paste on the bevel.
12/05/2011 at 12:03 pm #1070Ed is right on, as usual!
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