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Sharpening Stainless Steel and Japanese High Speed Tool Steel

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This topic contains 67 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  MarcH 10/14/2017 at 9:05 am.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 68 total)
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  • #41141

    MarcH
    Moderator

      The knife is a surprisingly good cutter/slicer. It has a very thin overall geometry, that is thin behind the edge and then all-the-way up to the heel.  It is very light for its design.  David, as you remarked, I truly was surprised how well it cuts considering the toothiness of the original sharpening job.  It definitely will make you re-evaluate your thinking on what is necessary to have a sharp knife.  Cause and effect, or bevel grind VS cutting ability is the driving force behind this thread (study).  I’ve learned the edge doesn’t have to look good to perform well!

      Marc

      #41145

      Mark76
      Keymaster

        Thanks, Marc. As you may know, I am particularly interested in kitchen knives. I have been eyeing knives in HAP-40, but never bought one. (They’re not cheap…) Maybe in the future, but I’m very interested in your experiences, both when you use it sharpened roughly (like now) as well as refined.

        I am not surprised the knife cuts so well now. When I sharpened for a restaurant there were chefs that didn’t want me to go finer than 800 grit. The tooth do help and the knife keeps its level of refinement longer.

        You wrote about a newsletter describing the knife. Would it be possible to email that to me (or to post it here if it’s not too off-topic)?

         

        Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

        #41150

        tcmeyer
        Participant

          This is a video, posted in July of ’16, of a Japanese Aritsugu knife my sister purchased as a gift for me at their store in Kyoto.  They sharpen in two stages.  First, a master hones the edge on an abrasive drum in a direction parallel to the edge.  Next, another master puts the final bevel on by the traditional waterstone method, perpendicular to the edge.  If you watch the video, you’ll see that there are a lot of minor defects on the edge.  The video was taken before the knife was ever used, so the defects are just a part of the knife.  It’s incredibly sharp, but this seems to be a result of the very low bevel angles.  From what I could see without actually touching a stone to the edge, the edge was convex sharpened to 12 degrees, inclusive.  The edge is so thin, you think of foil, or the flexible edge of a straight razor.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96vWJ4hDW4k

          5 users thanked author for this post.
          #41151

          MarcH
          Moderator

            Tom, has the edge stood up well with use?  It looks like it would easily roll.  It is quite thin.

            Marc

            #41158

            Organic
            Participant

              12 degrees inclusive? Wow! It looks much cleaner than the edges on the knives that Marc has posted, I bet it just glides through veggies.

              #41163

              Mark76
              Keymaster

                That’s an impresive video, even though there are some defects on the edge. I have the same question as Marc and Organic: how does the edge keep up? Or is the knife only used for specific goods, say, relatively soft vegetables?

                Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

                #41167

                tcmeyer
                Participant

                  I’ve only used the knife a half-dozen times, and haven’t checked it with the ‘scope since.  I’ll try to do so in the next few days.

                  Yes, I’ve only used it on soft veggies like tomatoes.  And it’s so incredibly sharp you wouldn’t believe it.   Wheeee!  It easily does the paper-thin tomato slice Mark showed us.

                  4 users thanked author for this post.
                  #41335

                  Organic
                  Participant

                    Here’s a video about sharpening maxamet steel that I think is relevant to the conversation:

                    3 users thanked author for this post.
                    #41336

                    Mark76
                    Keymaster

                      Thanks. That’s very interesting, particularly that Spyderco makes the edge quite coarse (150 or so, the guy said) and the microbevel very polished. I usually do it the other way around. And he has the same sharpening experience (chipping) as some people here 🙂 .

                      Great knife, by the way. I was saving for a Paramilitary in Maxamet, but I think I will now save for a Manix 2.

                      [Edited: I mixed up topics.]

                      Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

                      #41337

                      MarcH
                      Moderator

                        Mr. David, Thanks for posting the YouTube video.  It was very interesting and informative.  It feeds right in with my experiences that drove me to start this Thread / Topic in the first place.  Maxamet is just one more of the what I choose to call “Japanese Super Steels”, (JSS), to add to the list of steels with the disappearing edges while sharpening.  I don’t feel so bad anymore, hearing there are others out there, that have repeatedly experienced similar issues, as I have, while sharpening these JSS.   I find it particularly interesting the counter-intuitive methods tried and ultimately utilized to overcome sharpening difficulties with these steels.  His referring to the Maxamet steel, and all the JSS, for that matter, as more ceramic-like then steel-like is a great analogy.

                        One problem I see is there is a limited production and use of these JSS due to the high price points.   It makes me wonder is it worth the expense and inconvenience to buy and try to use and sharpen these JSS.  Maybe the steels or the methods of making these steels is just in it’s infancy and is evolving till the makers get it down.  I guess we’ll see in time.

                        Marc

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                        #41338

                        wickededge
                        Keymaster

                          I haven’t had the same experience at all with my Spyderco Native in Maxamet. I’ve now sharpened it twice since I got it, just matching what looked to me like a 3 micron finish at 16.5 degrees and I’ve been very happy with it. No chipping or anything else and the edge has held up great to all kinds of use. I’ve carried it every single day since June and used it lots.

                          -Clay

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                          #41339

                          MarcH
                          Moderator

                            Thanks for your post and reality check, Clay.  I didn’t consider the video makers sharpening method or technique.  That may have something to do with his results. Clay would you please post your stone progression and medium types used. Thanks

                            Marc

                            #41340

                            wickededge
                            Keymaster

                              Clay would you please post your stone progression and medium types used. Thanks

                              I’ve only used the 1500# diamonds and the 9 micron films. The scratches that the 1500# diamonds leave are right around 3 microns, nearly identical to the original grind of the edge from Spyderco. The first time I touched it up, I only used the 1500# stones and the second time, I used them again but added some strokes with the 9 micron films because the stones cut more deeply than the films and the films are quick at knocking off the higher ridges from the stones. So I still have scratches that are roughly 3 microns wide but aren’t very deep.

                              -Clay

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                              #41341

                              Organic
                              Participant

                                I haven’t had the same experience at all with my Spyderco Native in Maxamet. I’ve now sharpened it twice since I got it, just matching what looked to me like a 3 micron finish at 16.5 degrees and I’ve been very happy with it. No chipping or anything else and the edge has held up great to all kinds of use. I’ve carried it every single day since June and used it lots.

                                I remembered that you had previously posted about that exact knife and how impressed you were with it’s performance. That’s part of the reason I wanted to post the video here. Perhaps there is something to the notion of Spyderco having put out some of these knives with a poor heat treatment and you managed to get one of the good ones.

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                                #41342

                                wickededge
                                Keymaster

                                  Perhaps there is something to the notion of Spyderco having put out some of these knives with a poor heat treatment and you managed to get one of the good ones.

                                  That’s the first thing that came to mind for me when I watched the video. Maybe just a bad batch.

                                  -Clay

                                  2 users thanked author for this post.
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