Following a single scratch on a convex edge
- This topic has 30 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 08/20/2016 at 10:48 pm by
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This is pretty esoteric, but still fun to do; I got to work on returning my sample blade to a nice, high polish, working with the 1000# diamonds, SF Ceramics, some lapping films and strops 14/10, 5/3.5, 1/.5 and .25/.125. I won’t bore with pictures from each phase right now, just the final edge:
This first image is of a nearly perfect edge, with one lone scratch, which was intriguing so I followed it out along the whole bevel to the shoulder. The edge is convexed from 16° to 20° and what I found interesting is how the highest point in the curved shoulder has the deepest, messiest scratches. What I mean by “highest point” is that there is a convex curve from the shoulder to the edge with some point in the middle being the highest point in the curve, or the furthest from a straight line that would run between the shoulder and the edge. Here are some shots traveling away from the edge toward the shoulder:
The scratches appear to be deepest in image “Scratch-C”, which would represent the highest point in the curve. I know this isn’t particularly helpful in producing a sharp edge, just interesting to see the effects of the abrasives on a convex edge.
-Clay
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Very interesting Clay! But in a way it makes sense to me at least…where is most of the metal removed when going from stones to strops? The edge and shoulder. Although you world think the high spot would have the most abrasion wear.
Love the pics!
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I have no reference point to understand what I am looking at. I don’t see a bevel or an apex or a tip. I use my microscope, and even take photos, but nothing that I’ve seen looks anything like these photos. The scope is a necessary tool for me to see little nicks… the good news is that my knives are wicked sharp…
The other night I caught my wife cutting a tomato but instead of using a cutting board she used our granite counter top… A very bad habit, that we both have been guilty of before the WE… when I pointed it out to my wife she said in her defense, ” You should be happy, now you can re-sharpen it.” Its tough breaking old habits , when you have been married 50 years. I haven’t cut anything without using a cutting board since I bought the WE. I want to buy a couple of good kitchen knives.. But a bit reluctant to spend the money ( 400 dollars ). 62/ 63 roc. Damascus clad, balanced, with western handles. I’m afraid My wife would not respect them, unless I was standing right there.( She would just forget.)
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I have no reference point to understand what I am looking at. I don’t see a bevel or an apex or a tip.
As Tom said, the pics should be in a different order. The top pic show the edge of the edge. The bevel is very smooth, but there is one scratch. The other pics show more parts of the scratch. On the third pic, named Scratch-C you see the scratch is the deepest. Clay explained that the edge is convex and I think Josh (RazorEdgeKnives) gave a good explanation of why the scratch is the deepest on the third pic, where the “highest point” of the bevel is. I am not sure which parts of the bevel the pics called Scratch-B and Scratch-D show.
I use my microscope, and even take photos, but nothing that I’ve seen looks anything like these photos.
Clay uses quite a different microscope than us, mortals. Much better images and a magnification of 2000x (yes, 2000
). With that in mind it is even more remarkable the the majority of the bevel looks so smooth. Stropping really works.Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge
I have no reference point to understand what I am looking at. I don’t see a bevel or an apex or a tip. I use my microscope, and even take photos, but nothing that I’ve seen looks anything like these photos.
The magnification of these images is very high, so it’s hard to know what you’re seeing. I’ve added some labels to one of the images so you can see it better:
The scratch measures 2.5µ at its widest in this picture and we’re only looking at about 55µ (0.002″) of blade width from the edge. The other images show different sections of the bevel going back from the edge toward the shoulder. If the image section of blade being shown is using all the height of the image, then you’re looking at a section that is roughly 80µ (0.003″) wide.
-Clay
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Thank you… Got it !
Ill post my irreverence again,. What is the point? You can’t see it with the naked eye. I doubt the use of a knife with scratches of this depth would have any reflection on the aesthetics or the sharpness.
To me, the only feedback would be to carrying around a 2000X microscope to show people the level of scratches. If this is all about personal gratification…to have scratch less blade, I can get that. I think… it like having the equipment to engrave the constitution on the head of a pin, and the scope necessary to see it.
I got into this sharpening as a means to enjoy cutting things with the ease and controllability I have never been able to achieve in the past. I’m afraid this forum is way too focused on a scratch free blade, for the purpose of personal gratification… which I have no problem with that motivation.. but its not for me. Unfortunately, I do not share that same degree of passion, and from what I see over the last three months, there are only a very few with the same degree of interest. People come here, see what going on and after a few post, they are gone forever. I came here to help grow this forum, with some family style conversation , with a common interest of knives and sharpening and the ownership of the WE. ( if you look at the ” New Post section ” ( this where where everyone of the 250 topics wind up… The very first day I came here, I said there are way too many topics to try to navigate, so people all go to the New Post offerrings, to see two or three new ones, and then leave because those two or three are of no interest
Do you really think a guy who just spent 400, 700, or 1000 dollars, and knows nothing about sharpening wants to converse with guys who are looking under 2000 X microscopes looking to remove 0.2 microns, when 98% of them do not know what a micron is.
The issue is, I can not offer anything of substance to this forum.. I go to the new posts daily, and only see three or four new post a day, and that is a stretch… I did not think this forum was about only professional sharpening techniques. I know you are going to say it is not… but the conversation here is all about 2000x images, and the need to remove more and more of the 0.2 micron and smaller scratches…
No one wants to ask a brain surgeon or chief surgeon how to apply a bandade, when the conversation is all about dissecting ganglia, in what appears to be an international seminar where the chief surgeons of the world are having a conference on micro surgical techniques.
People come and go, because the main focus of this forum has gravitated to such a degree of perfection, no one but a few seem interested.. I like a sharp knife, and even a mirrored bevel, I like different types of knives and learning techniques, seeing visual aides and talking about what I can only call basic amateur interest in knife sharpening.. I would guess that 99% of those buying a WE are interested in repeatability and the ability to make a sharp edge. 1% a stretch looking to go the 2000X route.
I am not being a troll, I am not disrespectful, but if this forum is about growing it to appeal to the 99%. You guys have not really given anyone any reason to stick around for more that a few tricks, some updates, and then they are gone…
I have been treated with nothing but respect, on this forum, The people that are here are moral and ethical people.. for sure. I just have nothing to offer.. I left for a month and it was like I did not leave at all… its a month later and the same five guys are talking about things that I have little interest.. The conversation band is way too narrow to grow this forum.
I hope you take this critique in the manner in which it was intended. I’ve been involved with some sort of forum or BB for over 30 years. I’ve owned my own domains, and discussion groups. While this is a very non threatening forum, its way too narrow to appeal to a wide audience of WE owners.
Respectfully
Bill
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Personally I love to see/learn anything I can about abrasives or how they interact with the edge especially on a microscopic level as I find it fascinating. Mostly it comes into okay for me in 2 areas.
1. A perfect scratch free mirror edge (which people want and pay for)
2. Straight razor honing – microscopic scratches play a large roll here in how smooth the shave is.
I think in general studies that clay has done tend to draw people in for discussion and reading, as mark pointed out as well.
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- Topics: 14
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