Dilemma, sharp vs perfect polish

[Snecx]

Hi guys,

I have a dilemma. Basically right now the sharpest edges I have are right off the stones, more specifically the 0.6um microfine and lightly stropped at -1dps. At 0.6um microfine I’m able to remove all the previous grit scratches uniformly.

But here’s the dilemma, it’s a far cry from perfect mirror, and perhaps it looks a little “unfinished” up close too.

I’ve attained perfect mirror edges before, but they’re usually not that sharp due to the rounding of the edges. When I say “not that sharp”, it’s still more than shaving sharp, but just not as sharp as the edges off the hard stones. Here’s my video of the really sharp edge that I really like: https://www.instagram.com/p/BL0gd5ggg1p/

The process of trying to remove all the scratches from previous grit on leather just can’t give me the same acuteness of a hard stone. And reducing the angle by 1-2dps risks me over polishing the shoulder and increases the chances of giving a mirror haze to the primary bevel.

I have 50-1000 grit diamond, 1200/1600 ceramic (which I no longer use), 1.4/0.4um ceramic, and 5/3.5/1.0/0.5um diamond on leather.

I think I know the solution is to go with diamond films. Is there any other way? Like balsa/basswood for the strop instead of leather?

[cbwx34]

Try  this…

wickededge wrote:

A really good approach is to create the thinner bevels first and polish them to the level you want. Then add the micro-bevel with the level of tooth you want. Then lower the angle a few degrees and lightly strop a few times. Then you’ll get a honed, toothy edge that performs really well and also shaves, slashes through paper etc….

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Organic, sksharp, M1rrorEdge, wickededge, Snecx, dulledge

[tcmeyer]

You could buy a pair of blank handles and try any of a number of media possibilities.  With the diamond paste, you aren’t limited to leather or softwoods.  If you have a friend with woodworking equipment, you could try hardwoods as well.  I think maple is a good choice.  I tried paste on brass and it seemed to work pretty well, but I was already well down the diamond film path, so I didn’t stay with it.

WE sells handles with aluminum platens as well.  I think the intent was to give users a platen suitable for film until they could roll out their glass platens.  I lapped the aluminum and brass platens for flatness on sheets of sandpaper laid on a granite or glass plate.  If I recall correctly, I used 400, 600 and 800 grits.  It provides a surface you could load up with paste (it’s soft enough to have the diamond particles embed themselves in it) and still use as a film platen down the road.

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Alan, Snecx

[Snecx]

tcmeyer wrote:

You could buy a pair of blank handles and try any of a number of media possibilities. With the diamond paste, you aren’t limited to leather or softwoods. If you have a friend with woodworking equipment, you could try hardwoods as well. I think maple is a good choice. I tried paste on brass and it seemed to work pretty well, but I was already well down the diamond film path, so I didn’t stay with it. WE sells handles with aluminum platens as well. I think the intent was to give users a platen suitable for film until they could roll out their glass platens. I lapped the aluminum and brass platens for flatness on sheets of sandpaper laid on a granite or glass plate. If I recall correctly, I used 400, 600 and 800 grits. It provides a surface you could load up with paste (it’s soft enough to have the diamond particles embed themselves in it) and still use as a film platen down the road.

Thanks! Out of curiosity I just tried using cardboard from a cereal box, cut it and stuck it to my ceramic with rubber bands as the stropping medium. Turned out MUCH better than leather.

The edges still round a bit but I was testing with pressure to polish up the edges quick.

I guess I have to find an even thinner medium, and I’m thinking of thin paper next.

[tcmeyer]

The diamond platens can be removed.  They’re attached with 3M’s VHB double-faced tape, which is about 0.025″ thick.  The diamond platens measure to about 0.120″ thick.  If you come up with a platen + tape combination which total up to the same 0.145″ you won’t have to move the micro-adjusts much if at all.  I used 1/8″ brass (0.125″) which is only 0.005″ off the mark.  I bought my brass from Jantz Supply  (www.knifemaking.com).  A 12″ length is only $5 + shipping.

To remove the original platens, I place the platen face down in an old fondue pot, set to about 200 F.  This softens up the tape so you can pry the platens off of the handle.  Try to work the tape off before it cools, but be careful.  Wear a glove.  I got a nasty blister on my thumb from the combination of heat and the side-force being applied.  The tape is incredibly strong.

If I was to try it again, I’d start out with maple.  It’s hard and there is almost no open grain to build up contaminates.  And I’d use a friendlier tape.  Unfortunately, I sold my collection of paste with my strops to another forum member.

[phillyjudge]

WOW…I watched your instagram video…holy smokes…what combo did you use on that edge??

[dulledge]

Snecx wrote:

I think I know the solution is to go with diamond films. Is there any other way?

And what is wrong with films? What turns you off? 

[M1rrorEdge]

I had many of the same issues, however, once I discovered the diamond lapping films and used them myself, I was hooked.  I use them on the glass platens for a smooth keen edge.  The lapping film prevents the  micro convexing of the edge you wrote about.  The lapping films are easier and cleaner to use and the results are outstanding!

I have also watched someone who used standard news paper and double sided sticky tape on a level 1000 K paddle or flat ceramic.  Choose your micro abrasive for the paper (CBN Emulsion, WE Diamond Paste, Ken Schwartz- PDP Slurry) and let it dry to prevent tearing.  Heck, news paper on it’s own is a light abrasive.  News paper is cheap and holds the compound pretty well.

In the case that you choose the Lapping Film option.  Here is what I use presently…I have purchased three sets of glass platens and use the following progression after the 1000 grit.  This was the recommendation of TCMEYER in a earlier post on this forum.  ON Glass 6/3, 1.5/1.0, 0.5/0.1  If you use the films in this progression after the 1000 grit, you will not be disappointed.

Check back with us once you give it a try!

 

Eddie Kinlen
M1rror Edge Sharpening Service, LLC
+1(682)777-1622

4 users thanked author for this post.

Tactical Texture LLC, sksharp, Snecx, dulledge

[Snecx]

phillyjudge wrote:

WOW…I watched your instagram video…holy smokes…what combo did you use on that edge??

That’s finished with 0.6um micro fine, light stropping with the 4 different grits of diamond paste. It’s real sharp!

dulledge wrote:

And what is wrong with films? What turns you off?

Nothing actually! I might just get them eventually but I had to get those knife sharpened with what I have, so I was looking for ways to get things done ASAP.

 

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Tactical Texture LLC

[Tactical Texture LLC]

Just wanted to check back in to see if you decided to get the diamond films, or if the stropping on cardboard worked well enough?

[sksharp]

I was just curious if any one in this thread has used the kangaroo strops for mirroring an edge. I have had very good “luck” by just decreasing 1 deg. with kangaroo leather and just don’t use much pressure. The kangaroo is much thinner and firmer than the cowhide leather and is much less likely to over lap and dull the edge and doesn’t seem to smoke the blade side of the bevel. Nice even contrasting line. I am however finishing with a 1500 diamond stone so that my have some effect as well. So far when I use 1.4/.6 ceramic I have not stropped those edges because I love the way that edge performs. I’ll try stropping one with kangaroo and see what effect it has. Also micro-beveling will help because you don’t have to drop 2 deg. especially with the harder leather.

Just curious.

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Tactical Texture LLC

[Tactical Texture LLC]

sksharp wrote:

…. I am however finishing with a 1500 diamond stone so that my have some effect as well. So far when I use 1.4/.6 ceramic I have not stropped those edges because I love the way that edge performs. I’ll try stropping one with kangaroo and see what effect it has. Also micro-beveling will help because you don’t have to drop 2 deg. especially with the harder leather. Just curious.

I don’t think I understand what you mean here.  Are you saying that you are finishing your normal progression with the 1500’s at the same angle, and then using the 1.4/.6 to micro bevel, or are you using the same angle all the way through the 1.4/.6 ceramics and not doing a micro bevel?

Also, did you lap either side of your micro ceramic stones, or just use them as is???

Thanks!

 

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sksharp

[sksharp]

Sorry guys, I can be a bit confusing sometime by not separating my thoughts. Basically what I was trying to say, and not very well, is if you want a mirror edge and not dull the cutting edge, I have put a secondary bevel on the cutting edge, just 2 deg increase 1500 stones, and then I’m able to strop at 1 deg decrease or even the same angle as the primary bevel, depending on the size of the secondary bevel, so it does not effect the blade side of the edge, gives a clear crisp line and achieves a mirror edge without dulling the cutting edge. I am using kangaroo leather, harder and thinner than the cowhide, and using very light pressure. However, I don’t do it very often because of the time involved.

I have not stropped my micro ceramic edges because I haven’t seen the need. This is a personal preference. I do use the micro-ceramics for micro beveling because they take very little metal off and as I said love the edge that it provides.

I will try stropping the ceramic edge, because I am now curious to see if it helps at all with sharpness.  I’m Doubtful though.

I too will buy the lapping films, because after seeing the results from the micro-ceramic stones, I have to believe that the sharpness and the edge finish will be very outstanding. I do have 6 mic. lapping film but that’s the only one and it does ok, but the 1500 stone is around 3 microns already so I don’t get much out of it except it does seem to polish some so I can’t wait try a progression of lapping films.

Sorry for the confusion.

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Tactical Texture LLC

[Tactical Texture LLC]

sksharp,

Thanks again for the info both on here and via PM.

One quick question if I may.  You say that you like the edge the micro ceramic’s give.  Can you describe the difference between the edge using the 1500 diamonds vs the micro ceramics?  Is it a matter of toothiness vs. smooth, or just a difference in felt sharpness?

Thanks!

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sksharp

[sksharp]

In my opinion, it is both. For me now, it is both less tooth,but still has a little, than the 1500, which is around 3 micron diamonds, and has a sharper feel to the edge. I find that whether cutting tomatoes, paper or meat it performs very well. It’s right between the toothy feel I get from the 1500, and the smooth, “toothless” feel you can get from stropping, which is great for cutting delicate things but not as good for cutting the tougher materials, if you will. Again these are my opinions based on my limited although obsessive experience. I’ve used the ceramics on knives that I have sharpened in different ways just to prove to myself that it wasn’t because of blade geometry causing difference in the “feel” of the knives.

Thanks Brother

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Organic, Marc H, Tactical Texture LLC

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