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Chosera stone maintenance

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  • #11866
    Matt Cole
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 15

    I now have all of the Chosera stones (except the 400/600) and they are great. So now I need to maintain them and keep them flat. It’s kind of a vicious cycle.
    Most things I read say Atoma 140, but how fine of a Chosera can I lap with this? Would a 400 Atoma be too fine to lap an 800 Chosera? I’d like to buy no more that 2 Atoma plates to maintain the 800 through 10k Chosera stones, so which 2 should I get? Could I get away with just one?

    I was just about to pull the trigger on an Atoma 140 but I thought I would throw the question out here first.

    Also, I see that most Chosera stones come with a Nagura stone for prep and maintenance. Do any of you use this on your WE Chosera stones? I read some thread that suggested using a 140 Atoma and dress with the Nagura on all the Chosera stones through the 10k. Would that work? While I don’t want to end up buying an Atoma 140, 400, 600, and 1200, I don’t want to skimp on the maintenance of these stones either.

    Any input is appreciated

    #11867
    Phil Pasteur
    Participant
    • Topics: 10
    • Replies: 944

    Take a look at this:
    http://www.wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=8&id=2524&Itemid=63#2556

    BTW, I use a DMT XXC or XC for everything. Mostly these days the XXC… works faster. DMT doesn’t recommend lapping on anything but their $200 lapping plate… I have smoothed out the XC considerably, but I got the DMT plates for lapping stones, not sharpening. I hit the 5K and 10K with the Extra Fine DMT for a bit of smoothing.

    Not sure why you would need Atoma plates. Quite expensive for this use.

    #11873
    Ken Buzbee
    Participant
    • Topics: 14
    • Replies: 393

    I agree with Phil, BUT… Honestly, I haven’t needed to lap my Choseras yet. I just rub them together, wet, for a bit before use and that seems to handle it.

    I fully expect I’ll need to lap them at some point, but it hasn’t happened yet.

    Ken

    (edit – one caveat… I do not use my Choseras and Super Stones for “sharpening” per se. I let the diamonds do the heavy lifting. This is probably a factor in why, to date, my water stones have not needed flattening.)

    #11874
    cbwx34
    Participant
    • Topics: 57
    • Replies: 1505

    If they’re not too out of shape… could you not just use the WE coarse (100) diamond to maintain them? I’ve used a DMT XXC stone on lots of full size stone for years and it’s still going strong. Just lap under running water.

    #11881
    Matt Cole
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 15

    They are like $50 cheaper than the DMT Diaflat plates. That’s really the only reason I was leaning that way.

    Thanks for the link, A lot of good information, still not done reading all of it yet.

    #11882
    Jende Industries
    Participant
    • Topics: 14
    • Replies: 342

    Here’s my video of lapping Choseras and Shaptons using the WEPS diamonds and the full size Atomas.

    About 5 minutes in, it discusses some of the texturing issues with using a very coarse lapping plate on a fine stone. You don’t NEED to use many plates, but I highly recommend using the 400, 600, 800 or 1K WEPS diamonds or 400, 600 or 1200 Atoma diamonds on the 5K stones and higher.

    You can also use DMT plates. The process outlined in the video is the same. However, the DMT XX Coarse, Extra Coarse, and Coarse are better for lapping. The fine, extra fine and FF fine have serious sticktion issues, making them pretty much useless for lapping.

    For quick and simple lapping, you can get away with rubbing the 2 same grit stones together, but it is always better to lap them on a flat surface once in a while to true things up. With the precision the WEPS offers, dished stones can cause headaches.

    #11883
    Matt Cole
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 15

    Thanks, I just ordered an Atoma 140 and 600. Hopefully I will be content with those for lapping all of my Choseras.

    So no one uses the Nagura with their Chosera stones?

    #11884
    Phil Pasteur
    Participant
    • Topics: 10
    • Replies: 944

    They are like $50 cheaper than the DMT Diaflat plates. That’s really the only reason I was leaning that way.

    Thanks for the link, A lot of good information, still not done reading all of it yet.

    A quick check shows the 8″ DMT XXC is about $65. Atoma 400 about $120.

    The Dia-flat lapping plate that you talk about is more expensive ($190 +/-). Supposedly flat to high tolerances (“Each Dia-Flat is hand-certified to flatness of ±0.0005″ across its surface”) and with a “hard coat” method of applying the diamonds (Using the new revolutionary DMT® Diamond Hardcoat Technologyâ„¢, this lapping plate outlasts any other diamond coating in the market. ). It is also 10″ X4″. It is not the plate (s) that I talked about and that Curtis mentioned. It is probably not directly comparable to any of the Atoma plates.

    Tom,
    I use the extra fine DMT plate for texturing. Yes stiction can be a small problem. With plenty of water and the low amount of time required for a little texturing, it is serviceable, if not ideal.

    BTW the D8E is around $50. The Atoma 1200 about $120 give or take. I only mention this to clarify for Matt . It appears that he did not understand the specifics of the plates I was talking about.

    BTW (2), if I was going to use diamond bench hones extensively to sharpen knives , I would look closely at the Atoma plates. For use only in lapping stones, it is hard for me to justify the additional cost.

    #11885
    Geocyclist
    Participant
    • Topics: 25
    • Replies: 524

    I don’t claim to be an expert here, but I just lap them. I do this to make the slurry, but figure a side benefit is it helps keep them flat. Don’t know if something more aggressive or flatter is required?

    #11886
    Phil Pasteur
    Participant
    • Topics: 10
    • Replies: 944

    I don’t claim to be an expert here, but I just lap them. I do this to make the slurry, but figure a side benefit is it helps keep them flat. Don’t know if something more aggressive or flatter is required?

    As we always say…it depends. If you read Kens thread and even listen to Tom’s video, you can’t come away thinking that more than simply rubbing the stones together for a bit before using them is required. Put a good straight edge on your stones. If they are not perfectly flat, in length, width and diagonally, a case can be made for needing to lap them with something more than each other.

    There are those in the sharpening world that will not use a stone without lapping it “perfectly” flat every single time.

    #11896
    Mark76
    Participant
    • Topics: 179
    • Replies: 2760

    Tom,

    In your video you use a 600 grit Atoma for your 10K Shapton and a 1200 grit Atoma for your 10K Chosera. (If I remember it correctly – saw the video this morning.) Is there a reason for this?

    If you could buy only one Atoma for flattening your high-grit stones, which one would it be?

    Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

    #11904
    Phil Pasteur
    Participant
    • Topics: 10
    • Replies: 944

    Obviously I am not Tom and I can’t comment on the Atoma plates as I don’t have any.
    I can tell you that I have found the 10K Chosera to be much softer than the Shapton stone.
    When I lap with the DMT diamond plates, it gets deeper scratches. Because of this I need to re-texture it with finer plates. Probably if you had the patience to lap with the 1200, (or just don’t let you stones go too far), using the 1200 might just let you get away without texturing at all… and save needless wear on that soft, and relatively expensive, stone.

    Just my guess. I am curious to see what Tom says…

    #11905
    Geocyclist
    Participant
    • Topics: 25
    • Replies: 524

    Phil,

    Good point about checking with a straight edge. If they is a high spot this would definitely show. If there is a shallow spot, can you see this with a straight edge?

    How often do you lap yours? Do check first to see if they need it or just do it for good measure?

    #11906
    Phil Pasteur
    Participant
    • Topics: 10
    • Replies: 944

    If you hold the stone and straightedge with a light behind them, you can see pretty small dips.
    I have also used a piece of printer paper as a feeler gauge…. of course a gap would have to be pretty serious to find it that way. I also have a set of feeler gauges that I have dragged out to check them. The thinnest one is 0.0015″ thick. If that one will not slide at any place between the stone and straightedge… I am not worrying about flatness.

    No I don’t lap that often. I do what you do before each sharpening and rub the stones against each other under running water. I have only done the 5K and 10K choseras twice in their lifetimes. I have done the 400 through 3K three times (maybe 4). That is quite a few knives.. The coarser stones wear faster. Because you don’t really ever use the top end of the stones on the WEPS, I also have marked the stones, and flip them end to end each time I sharpen. This helps distribute the wear. Eventually they will need to be flattened. Keep an eye on them… I check them more than I lap them. Fortunately, I use the diamonds for the bulk of the metal removal. The Choseras have it pretty easy…
    😉

    #11963
    Mark76
    Participant
    • Topics: 179
    • Replies: 2760

    I find this a very intriguing discussion… On the one hand there are people who say that it really doesn’t matter with how coarse a diamond plate you lap your high-grit stones, on the other hand there are people who say it matters very much (Tom! Where are you?).

    I happened to have asked this question at another forum as well. And now I asked it again with links to other threads: http://www.chefknivestogoforum.com/how-to-flatten-high-grit-stones-cont-d-t2886.html

    It would be nice if we could join forum forces. I don’t know how, but let’s see.

    At the end of the day it would be nice if we could get an answer to the question many ppl seem to have. I have experimented already and hoped to be able to see differences between scratches made by a 15K Shapton lapped on an Atoma 140 and a 15K Shapton lapped afterwards on a 1K WE diamond stone. The trouble is, these scratches are tiny… much too tiny for my (supposedly) 400x microscope.

    So who’s got empirical evidence? Or a very convincing theory?

    Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

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