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Case for WE130, upgrade options?

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  • #42239
    Justin Fournier
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 54

    I should add, I have zero experience with lapping, but have stropped by hand a bunch, so I’m familiar with that process.

    I’m not sure where I should be adding lapping to improve my stropping, maybe even lapp all the way down to .5 with a final few passes with a strop, I have no idea. So open to input there.

    My goal is to have a mirror polish, be able to do frequent touch ups tot he knife in my pocket with an easy, repeatable setup, and at minimum maintain a shaving sharp edge, but would like to be able to pass the hanging hair test, with the high polish level I’m after.

     

    Edit: I just called back, Kyle is probably getting bored of my calls by now, to change to the upgrade 3, as that will give me a complete second system, basically. I’ll figure out what to do with it later lol!

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #42242
    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 74
    • Replies: 2733

    Justin, I have all the upgrades but still use the old “L” brackets.  I don’t believe there’s a reason to replace them as long as the threaded hole for the ball joint are clean and smooth, and the threads for the locking thumb screws are also good.  The male threads on the ball joint screw do become flattened from clamping pressure when locking them with the thumb screw.  The ball joints I’ve had to replace.  Now I use a nylon thumb screw to lock them, in place of the original metal ones.  Some users use a small piece of plastic material inserted in the threaded holes with the old metal thumb screws.

    I think you would do well to order the 1500 diamond / glass platen combo and use this in place of, or in addition to, the 1200/1600 ceramics.  That also gives you one more glass blank for an additional lapping film.  I like to follow my diamond progression up to 1500.  I think that 1500 is a very good finishing stone.  The strops are a good call.  I love the diamond emulsion 4/2 pair.

    All the ceramics, (1200/1600, 1.4/0.6) take a lot of use to break them in before you’ll realize their full potential.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #42244
    Justin Fournier
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 54

    Thanks Marc,

    I am sure I will forget or be missing something from this order, so I can always do a small follow up order afterward.

    Do you think the diamond 1500 with say a 9 or 6 micron film would replace my ceramics? I’m kinda murky on the 1500 with the 1200/1600 ceramic. Wouldn’t it be a step backwards from the 1500?

    I don’t think I have broken in the ceramics yet, so not too keen on replacing them!

    Would the 1500 then a 6 micron lapping film replace my ceramics all together? I’d have an extra surface, but then I would probalby have a finer lapping film, like a 1.5?

    So would you suggest diamond to 1500, then 6/3/1.5 micron lapping film, then a 4/2 & 1/.5 micron strop? Goal again being hanging hair test and mirror finish.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #42247
    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 74
    • Replies: 2733

    The 1500 paired with the 6µ is a good way to go.  I do think the films can replace the ceramics if your goal is a visually mirrored polish.  I have done well with the films down to 1.0µ.  Smaller than that my results are sometimes less predictable.

    So would you suggest diamond to 1500, then 6/3/1.5 micron lapping film, then a 4/2 & 1/.5 micron strop? Goal again being hanging hair test and mirror finish.

    Yes I like that progression.  Realize when your changing abrasive mediums the grits don’t always correlate or follow linearly down the grit range.  It’s usually a good idea when switching mediums to step back up a grit and allow the overlap or repetition if you will of the grit size.

    I have found that an edge will sometimes pass the Hanging Hair Test (HHT) prior to stropping and not pass HHT after stropping.  But it will cut more smoothly and feel sharper after stropped.

     

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

    3 users thanked author for this post.
    #42248
    Justin Fournier
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 54

    Thanks Marc,

    I will go forward with what I have now. Diamond to 1000, then 1200/1600 and 1.4/.6 micron ceramic. Then 6/3 diamond lapping film, and finally 4/2 emulsion &  1/.5 micron diamond paste on leather. I do feel I should be able to get a better result than I have been getting, and dividing up the cost would help, as currently I am off work for 6 weeks with a broken foot so I am not getting paid.

    On the bright side, it has given me lots of time to play with knives and the WE!

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #42249
    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 74
    • Replies: 2733

    I should add, I have zero experience with lapping, but have stropped by hand a bunch, so I’m familiar with that process. I’m not sure where I should be adding lapping to improve my stropping, maybe even lapp all the way down to .5 with a final few passes with a strop, I have no idea. So open to input there. My goal is to have a mirror polish, be able to do frequent touch ups tot he knife in my pocket with an easy, repeatable setup, and at minimum maintain a shaving sharp edge, but would like to be able to pass the hanging hair test, with the high polish level I’m after. Edit: I just called back, Kyle is probably getting bored of my calls by now, to change to the upgrade 3, as that will give me a complete second system, basically. I’ll figure out what to do with it later lol!

    This post got overlooked.  The order is generally: Diamond stones, (ceramics or no ceramics, your choice), diamond lapping films, strops.  As I said early a stropped knife will loose the wire edge that I believe is helpful or needed to pass HHT.  I do feel the stropped edge is sharper and smoother.  I think a knife sharpened to demonstrate a HHT may not be durable enough for the pocket.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

    3 users thanked author for this post.
    #42251
    Mark76
    Participant
    • Topics: 179
    • Replies: 2760

    A stropped knife will loose the wire edge, but stropping will also make the edge sharper apart from that (due to burnishing). And if you’re going for a mirror polish, the answer is quicky made.

    Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #42255
    Justin Fournier
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 54

    Thanks again Guys, I will report back once I get the new stuff setup.

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #42256
    Readheads
    Participant
    • Topics: 32
    • Replies: 308

    I have done away with all my ceramics as I find them not necessary when going to the films, even the 9 micron films don’t show much scratch pattern improvements over the 1500 diamonds. Although it is not a perfect science/progression as different steel/heat treats react a bit differently.

    3 users thanked author for this post.
    #42257
    Justin Fournier
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 54

    Thanks Redheads. Currently without ceramics, I would be going to 6 micron film from 1000 grit diamond. So I could buy the 1500… The thing is, I will be in over $500-$600 on this order, and $800ish on my last one, and still barely using the system.

    I’m tempted to grab a 1500, and match it with a 6 micron film, then go down to a 1.5 micron film with the 3 I just ordered, then the 4 leather strops, but that is another $100, replacing $200ish worth of stones I haven’t even broken in and I’m feeling pretty tapped out.

    So fast forward a week or two, everything is here and I give it a go, if it is working well, shouldn’t be a big deal to grab a couple things to really flesh it out, maybe sell my ceramics to offset the cost if possible, but I’m thinking that is Clay is using Shapton stones, rather than diamond, and going right into fancy CBNs etc, then that is probably the way to research next as I doubt he would be using them if diamond were better. Looks like they don’t sell those though, so there is a lot to figure out.

    I guess I really feel like I’m starting to split hairs, and without a microscope I am kinda doing it all in the dark. So that might be a better place to spend money next. However I am perfectly fine not reinventing the wheel where someone is already demonstrating the results I want. I am tempted to just go their proven route. So if the general concensus is the ceramics should be replaced with the 1500, then I can do that. No point in getting worse results over $100 difference when I am in close to about $1500.

    I bought this system a few years ago now, as you can see I registered here back in 2012, but never did post. Over that time I spent way more time sharpening by hand, but have finally got to the point where I wanted to dial in the WE as I can see the potential in the system, I have the time off work to figure it out, and I think it deserves one more try. So I want to really focus on the core of the system, and am open to perfecting the progression after that.

    Finally, I am working on steels I do not see many other people using a WE on, primarily Vanax 37, with a little M390 and S90V thrown in from time to time. The other steel I work on is Delta protocol 3V, which is going to be the next knife I do when the new upgrade comes, but I am yet to put that in front of the WE.

    I have a young family, I have already done over 2000 hours at work and I’ve been off a month, a 100 mile round trip commute and never ending renovations. So I just haven’t found myself satisfied with the monkeying around. One night in 220 minutes of trying to sharpen I got maybe 2 in before I ran out of time, where the freehand stones can be setup in literally a minute.

    So I am really hopeful the 130 is going to be the ticket to an easy repeatable setup. I have my space to setup and work, so it should all be a go!

    So what do I do, 1500 or not?

    #42260
    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 74
    • Replies: 2733

    Justin go with what you have coming.  Figure it out with the new vice and jaws.  Get your technique down.  Figure your repeatability out.  See the results of what your mediums produce.  Then…after learn how to use what you have, and also, what your getting soon, and understand what all you have, then buy some more goodies!  Especially if time is limited in your busy schedule. Just MO.

    BTW I too use Shapton Glass Stones then go to strops.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

    3 users thanked author for this post.
    #42264
    Justin Fournier
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 54

    Thanks Marc,

    I’m gonna do that. My partner in knife collecting also uses Shapton glass on his Edge Pro, I know a couple others as well who freehand with them, and all get good results. I also get good results as is, but am looking for better than good!

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #42308
    wickededge
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 123
    • Replies: 2938

    I’m thinking that is Clay is using Shapton stones, rather than diamond, and going right into fancy CBNs etc

    Justin – I don’t use the Shaptons at all. I have a set, but I haven’t pulled them out in a couple of years. I do straight diamonds through 1500, then usually lapping films and finish with strops, most commonly the 4/2 set though I’ll go finer if I’m looking for a more perfect finish. I still use ceramic stones on knives where I want a good finish and a very sharp edge but am not looking for a mirror. I usually follow the ceramics with a little stropping.

    -Clay

    4 users thanked author for this post.
    #42313
    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 74
    • Replies: 2733

    Justin, I do use Shapton Glass Stones, often.  I find I can get pretty much the same polish and fine, even predictable scratch pattern from the SGS as I can with Diamond Lapping Films, (DLF).  The advantage to using the SGS is they can be used edge-leading, edge-trailing and with a scrubbing motion with out damage to the stones.  Whereas with DLF you must exercise real care to use them any other way then edge-trailing to avoid cutting and gouging them.

    Both these mediums are consumable with the DLF wearing out or cutting much quicker than the stones will wear.  The SGS are a true costly investment and the Shapton Diamond Glass Lapping Plate is worthwhile and needed, to maintain the flatness, and a costly investment too.  But once you go for the expense you’ll have the use for many, many, years to come.

    I have found, IMO, that some of the newer Super Stainless Steels” seem to sharpen well and easier with the SGS then with metal Diamond Stones or DLF.  I can’t say for sure whether it’s the hardness or toughness of the SGS or that they’re use with a spritz of water.  Maybe the water cools the metal or lubricates it.  They do seem to sharpen the new steels with less effort, less chipping and quicker than diamonds stones.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #42336
    Justin Fournier
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 54

    Thanks Clay, and thanks Marc.

    I’m going to go with what I have for now, diamond with the possibility of changing after I get some experience with the new system. I’m kinda sitting on the 1500’s thinking I might as well just add them, but kinda iffy. Hopefully Kyle calls me back and if my order hasn’t shipped yet, I will add a set I guess.

    What would my progression be in said case, diamond to 1500, DLP I have on order is 6 & 3, would I want to add a 1.5? Then strops I have a 4/2 emulsion and 1/0.5 paste on leather. doing the 1500, I would skip the ceramics as well, and consider adding whatever film made sense, if there is one.  I’ve read 6 micron after 1500 is the way to go, but not sure going down to 1.5 in DLP then back up to 4 in leather is a good idea, maybe just skip the 4 and go 2?

    Thank you Gentlemen.

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